It’s pretty ridiculous, Blizz gave every Paladin a whole additional spell to help with tanking/dps that they didn’t get until LK, but can’t help out cats with a change that didn’t exist until well into Black Temple
The goal wasn’t to “help out” but to eliminate archaic restrictions that hindered the game, or could be abused in some way or another. Powershifting is itself one of those archaic things that Blizzard would phase out sooner if they wanted, since it dies in Wrath deliberately.
It just isn’t comparable.
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Not sure how having unique seals hindered the game, let alone led to abusive situations. One seal ended up being better for ret, one seal ended up being better for Prot. It didn’t mean Horde prots or Alliance rets were useless.
The point here isn’t your subjective opinion on why the Paladin changes were necessary. Rather, Blizz adopted a change from a completely separate expansion, yet won’t give Ferals the benefit of the doubt with powershifting, when it has a much stronger argument for being in BCC over opposite faction Paladin’s SoV & SoB. Blizz’s Frankenstein approach to patching/changes is just frustrating and inconsistent.
If your making this argument, then seal twisting should have also died out when batching was eliminated, as it’s another ‘archaic thing that Blizz would phase out sooner if they wanted’, since it too also dies out later on. Yet they deliberately went out of their way to make sure seal twisting was still possible after the recent batching changes.
Meaning, they’re ok with archaic class gimmicks sometimes, but not all the time. Again, their Frankenstein-patching approach is inconsistent and frustrating.
It’s absolutely comparable.
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I rarely ever post on any forum much less a blizzard forum, but here I am posting about a change that should be easy for a dev to see as necessary and positive. Of course I am referring to the feral DPS energy fix. So devs ask yourself these questions… Is the feral change request unreasonable or a game changer? No, the change would represent an accurate representation of feral DPS in TBC for most of the expansion and implementing the change would only make feral DPS middle of the pack rather than bottom of the barrel. Would the change make any group of people upset? Unlikely, as very few people play feral DPS and that will remain with or without the change. What is the consequences of not implementing the change? Probably not much, people who like it will play it regardless but the rotation will suck and people will do whatever is necessary to be successful even if they use millions of trolls blood potions. As for me, I main a feral tank but if you made the energy change happen I would be much happier when I have to DPS. As it is I almost want to respec boomkin or resto if I’m not tanking.
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I second this. I’m literally amazed at the difference in play style when looking at the flow chart on wowhead of feral dps through the tbc patches. This feels sooooooooo bad in dungeons. I’m just gonna say blizzard this is you being the fun police and it’s a bummer. I will legit take a shred nerf on damage to get this back. You have so many cat dps noobs that don’t even know what they are missing. Your robbing your players of a genuine tbc experience with an unintended change of 2.4.3 (could be wrong but someone said on druid classic discord it was changed in 2.4.3 but not on purpose and they didn’t really fix it until wotlk?) let me know if someone can clarify that I honestly don’t know don’t want to spread misinformation but if it’s true it’s legit just fun police.
They never said it a gimmik they don’t support don’t worry. He actually tried to provide proof of this statement it was lol. It was wrath design faq where they said in wrath cat design they trying to “discourage” powershifting. So to fix it for you what Fasc sais and reality almost never align. Unlike Fasc when blizzard responds and explains their view it is generally very reasonable. Too bad they don’t do it very often.
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Welcome to 2.4.3
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You answered your own question. Blizzard, and the community, agreed that the distinction didn’t strike the right balance between faction/flavor and effectiveness. That’s why we see every Priest getting Fear Ward in TBC, but the rest of the Priest racials staying the same.
It has been very consistent in fact. Every single one of their non-TBCC changes and alterations have been informed and motivated by a singularly consistent fact: they were all future-looking changes brought back in time. Whether we’re talking the Hunter AP change in Naxx, Paladin seals, Arena requirements, profession perk restrictions, etc, they’ve all mirrored or been outright ripped from late patch settings and/or Wrath adjustments.
Powershifting, being archaic and unsupported, would receive no such benefit since TBC originally saw it lessened and weakened and the mechanic outright gutted in the earliest Alpha builds of Wrath.
Seal twisting being blessed by Blizzard was explicit, and it wasn’t so targeted for destruction like powershifting.
Powershifting has been explicitly condemned by past Blizzard Devs.
Only if you ignore all the information and you’re invested in maintaining powershifting to the point of ignoring reason.
We’re getting TBCC+, with the “+” being changes that we see in later iterations of the game that don’t necessarily break the flow and feel of TBC. The rare exception, but always possible in any situation, is Blizzard explicitly saying “This thing is now how it shall be.”
So unless you get the Devs on board with blessing powershifting, which I heavily doubt, they aren’t comparable at all.
You’re doing great
Im not too into the whole power shifting bug. There is def. smth wrong with energy in their spaghetti code client. But wasn’t the way energy behaves on ferals a bug introduced at the end of TBC?
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they did that 14 years ago in 2.2?
Nope, Energy fully reset on shift in 2.2 or thereabouts and while some noise was made about it affecting powershifting, the Devs collectively shrugged and it became the intended norm thereafter.
Then we got the revelation that you could do all kinds of wonderful things with macros filled to the brim with conditionals, like checking your current Energy and Combo Points or the duration of Rip and Mangle to have the macro pick your next ability for you, all while you spammed a single button to do your entire rotation. That lasted all of a few weeks during Sunwell because an addon was made for Ferals to do exactly that, allowing you to customize the threshold for shifting based upon your mana availability and the length of a fight. I want to say similar addons were made for other classes as well but the Feral one really became popular overnight, so the API access was nuked without even patch notes to that effect.
Then shortly after that we started testing Alpha Wrath mechanics and changes where Feral was entirely overhauled probably a dozen times or more, all with the intent to make us (as well as all other DPS specs) Raid viable and competitive but without relying upon janky mechanics like powershifting that were never intended for such use anyway.
It was and was confirmed by CM that it was unintended change, which was never fixed. there are a couple of trollol who will tell you without any evidence other wise but they are just that trollols.
So they can give alliance paladins a spell that they never had back in BC but they can’t make a small change for feral druids?
??? like this guy?
How did you guess?
If you want a full history we can go through it all again but the short and sweet version is this:
- Post 2.2, on the EU forums, a Community Manager Blue poster responded to someone griping about the Energy change for Ferals doing powershifting. The CM said the change wasn’t intended to do anything to powershifting, a term the CM had to questioningly confirm, but that the CM wasn’t a Dev to make any final say about anything.
- The next Blue posts in time related to powershifting come directly from Ghostcrawler, an actual Dev, during the WotLK Alpha/Beta period, specifically stating that powershifting is indeed dead and that anything that approaches powershifting is what Blizzard is trying to avoid.
- On the Elitist Jerks forums you can find the multiple threads (using the Wayback Archive) discussing 2.4.x era Feral, namely the existence of a full reset as well as the heavy discussion about the addon/macros used to one-button spam Feral DPS.
- On a variety of old forums, old Thottbot posts, old WoWhead posts, etc, you can find discussion of powershifting but the responses to it are often skeptical of its performance capabilities and questions as to what it even was at the time during TBC.
In short, a change in 2.2 made it such that continuous Energy tics ceased to be a thing for Druids upon shapeshifting. This only impacted powershifting Ferals, a minority among Ferals who are themselves a minority among players writ large. This minority persisted throughout TBC because Druids were (and continue to be) a minority class anyway and Feral DPS with or without powershifting was never competitive. Ferals were still dealing with guild politics at the time that denied them acceptance even as Tanks let alone DPS. So Blizzard didn’t target Ferals for this change, likely because it wasn’t even on their radar, but when they were alerted to it, did absolutely nothing to reverse it. The only thing Blizzard did to powershifting after 2.2 was to kill it outright in 3.0.
Blizzard inadvertently killed off a player conceived method that Blizzard, once made aware, didn’t like in the first place.
As Ziryus eloquently put it: https://xkcd.com/1172/
Beastfury’s entire gripe is based upon Blizzard needing to go back into time when 2.2 happened and nothing was done to address the “bug” of Feral not keeping Energy tics regardless of forms. This absence of evidence is her entire basis of argument. Blizzard didn’t address it directly, so Beastfury erroneously believes it must be a bug that needs addressing now. Since the logical chain is broken (you can’t imply a “must” from an open ended negation), Beastfury can’t be reasoned with as evidenced in all of the Feral threads. Without a direct, implicit, magic words comment from Blizzard addressing precisely what Beastfury wants, even remote skepticism of her position is treated as trolling.
/shrug
I wonder, did the cool trick you can do in this client (as feral or rogue), that allows you to get energy before the usual tick by swapping weapons and drinking trolls blood potions exist too?
I played tbc in 2007 and i have never seen energy behave the way like it does here.
Edit: I guess point being: why stick to a powershift change, that only occured after 2.2 (as you said) and was acknowledge to be removed with wotlk (as you claimed) for TBC, when there are behaviours of energy in the game that quite frankly should not exist. Apparently paladins can spam blessing of wisdom or so on you and everytime you click it off, you gain part of an energy tick
So why fight on the hill for the feral energy reggen post 2.2, but ignore obvious bugs in the game?
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Your pathetic attempts to put words in my mouth are getting just sad. You keep pushing the same BS that somehow powershifting that existed for 2 full expansions and was gone after full rework of cat dps in wrath makes it an exploit without a shred of evidence.
More so you stating that i use the word MUST. Not only did you use it you accented on it. Despite the fact that it no where near my point, nor did i ever say it. But i guess facts are not important in trolling.
You continue to twist my words to support your trolling and continue to fail to provide any basis for your “facts”. Which are nothing more then figment of your imagination. All the while actively dismissing actual evidence from CM and patch notes because it does not fit your twisted narrative.
Just to point a very blunt example of your BS. I have nor did i imply that bug MUST be addressed now. I stated based on more then one fact (supported by evidence) that this change was a BUG (aka unintended consequence of change that was aimed at different goal). And as such as well as few other reasons I ask blizzard to consider adding this to #somechanges.
Every time you are asked to provide any back up to your false claims you fall flat and either resort to basic trolling or drop the subject like you did with your attempt to call trollblood workout and obvious bug that needs to be fixed, without a shred of evidence(out side you vivid imagination) that this was not the case in TBC.
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- On the Elitist Jerks forums you can find the multiple threads (using the Wayback Archive) discussing 2.4.x era Feral, namely the existence of a full reset as well as the heavy discussion about the addon/macros used to one-button spam Feral DPS.
can you elaborate on this fask. in regards to one-button spam? Are we supposed to have some sort of hunter one button macro in 2.4.3 then that currently doesnt exist? Something like mangle spam/smart macro detecting clearcast procs for shred? this is the last thing i want personally but shouldnt this macro exist in game if hunter macro does? legit this is cringe to talk about but i just want some clarification and your opinion on the one button macro if I understand it correctly.
General assumption is “yes” but no one found it until now. There’s always the possibility that the trollsblood gimmick was created in the process of splicing TBC into the Retail infrastructure, but it is also possible the behavior was a bug that existed in TBC itself.
A. Powershifting being changed at all probably didn’t matter an iota to Blizzard. Given GC’s comments later in time during Wrath, powershifting was treated like “sitting to get crit to force Reckoning procs” in that it was something that was accurate when you put all the mechanics in the game together a certain way, but not at all supported or intended behavior. The sit-to-crit was addressed quickly probably thanks to Blizzard’s hypersensitivity to Reckoning after the infamous one-shot of Doom Lord Kazzak. Put bluntly, trying to “fix” a bug that only negatively impacts an unintended mechanic is not going to happen.
B. What caused the Energy change in 2.2 or thereabouts is likely linked to the overall resource update, which is also likely causing the trollsblood gimmick to work as well incidentally. They may not be the same line of code mind you, but they probably stem from the same patchwork attempt at smoothing transitions between default regen and improved regen (Innervate, Evocation, etc). Noting A above, if they untangle the mess to fix the trollsblood gimmick, there’s no reason they MUST fix or address the Energy reset either. Modern Devs have already posted in the “Not a Bug” list that the Energy reset is accurate.
The only obvious bug as of right now is the trollsblood gimmick, not the Energy reset. Until Blizzard changes their stance on that, this is where we are.
Denying evidence inconvenient to your argument doesn’t make your argument better, it just makes you look silly.
You cannot treat the widespread understanding of powershifting in June 2021 and apply that understanding post hoc to the general use and understanding of powershifting in 2007. You keep ignoring this to your detriment, as it undermines your entire point.
You also keep arguing from an absence of evidence chain of logic, which is an error. Everything that follows is tainted by these faulty assumptions.
No, absolutely not. Prior to 2.4.3 there were a lot more things that macros and addons could access and do for us. Generally no one bothered with making some grand if-then conditional because rotations simply weren’t complex or difficult to do, plus the whole “feels a lot like cheating” thing. However, Feral was complicated enough to motivate one modder who frequented the EJ boards to create an addon to supply all the conditionals needed to assess everything on your character and pick which ability you’d hit next.
Unlike the Hunter macro which just perfectly timed Steady Shot between your Autoshot speeds and you spammed it to do one ability perfectly… this macro/addon would actually let you hit ONE key and it would pick Mangle, Shred, Rip, Ferocious Bite, or powershift as appropriate. It literally allowed you to manage multiple timers and resources without looking at anything, you could just spam your key and move as needed for a boss.
Blizzard killed off this API access very quickly.
As an aside, this addon later became Feral-by-Night, an addon that simply popped up a DISPLAY of what you needed to hit next, rather than doing it for you. This was all but required to play Feral optimally in WotLK because the rotation became a very convoluted priority system.