Just jumping into shadowlands now that classic is all but dead and I’m noticing just how weak bleeds are. I was a semi hardcore raider through legion and loved the ashemane stuff but coming back now looking at my details after a few runs (190ish ilevel) and on single target fights where I’m doing between 4-6k dps, my bleeds are only accounting for a cumulative 20% of my damage, while FB is something like 40-60%. Is this right? Are bleeds that weak now and only useful for the interactions they have with shred, swipe, and the apex leggo?
Compared to Legion days, Ferocious Bite has moved up in our damage profile. However, this does not mean that Rip is worse (at least once you have enough Mastery).
For single target, FB is going to be king; But on AOE, Primal Wrath and Balance Affinity will be king. You may need to carry around some Tomes to change talents based on the content to get the most out of it.
Its staggering to be sure. Using primal wrath off of a blood talons/tiger fury set up in aoe is solid but man bite on single target is loony. I kinda wish they’d do a tuning pass to buff rip and rake to be closer to 30-40% overall
Oh and agreed; We do need a buff 
Tip: We can get a boost to our Mastery from covenants such as Kyrian or Venthyr, but those are just for a short period of time.
In M+ about half my damage is bleed damage.
What has made direct damage so much higher a % is that mastery now affects finishers in general, making FB much higher.
I know we’re classically a bleed spec, but that also used to hurt us against anything that died quickly, or needed burst damage done.
Also, has anyone noticed that we have gigantic teeth? It’s only ability memory that makes us think we shouldn’t be able to bite the crap out of things.
Bleeds are still important, and still our largest damage per energy abilities. I don’t really feel like we’re in a bad spot right now for damage profile, we’re just not used to it. (Unless you were used to uncapped Brutal Slash being a third of your damage in dungeons)
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Against anything that dies quickly you’d probably not want to put anything up other than a bleed debuff and go for bites. But I get what you’re saying about priority burst, I just feel like buffing bite through the roof is a lazy solution when they could have implemented the old jagged wounds into FB baseline so any target you bite that’s bleeding bleeds X% faster. Just a thought.
Yeah Primal Wrath is awesome. It feels really good combo’d with BT and TF.
Checkmate
I agree the output is strong and the playstyle is fun (though not as fun as it has been in the past, at least) but like I said in my first post, bleeds just feel like they’re there to serve as a maintenance debuff for swipes and shreds. I’d like to see a bit of a shift away from bite power into a synergy with rips and rakes like jagged wounds used to provide. But I know that was hated during Legion.
Depending on the situation. 3+ mobs, of even for 2-3 ticks, I think Is the break over point where PW > Bite. Rip is still strong, especially on multiple targets. Not to mention that it also has the direct damage associated with it as well.
You don’t need a 5 point finisher for it to be effective. 2-3 point PW + 1 bite (usually enough time for this even in short lived trash packs) usually beats out trying to fit in 2 big bites 
Necrolord or Kyrian + Draught or Circle = great for a bleed style play.
Take Sabertooth and FF. And if you want a true bleed style play, take Savage Roar over Soul of the Forest.
I don’t think the output is as high as focusing on a bite heavy play style, but the options for bleed-centric play are there
I’ve dedicated myself to a pure bleed build and it honestly isnt that bad compared to a standard bite build, I’m necrolord and swapping between circle of life and death aswell as Draught of the deep focus legendary and I can do around 4k DPS single target with only PvP.
It’s been really fun for me to play around with talents and legendaries trying to make a bleed build work, especially since there isn’t any other ferals from my knowledge doing it. So I get to do all the theory crafting and testing myself
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without haste?
Circle of life and death 
im a pvper so main stat is vers, but im 37% mastery and then go for haste as a third stat
oof i want test that bleed build in M+
:3
i dont use primal wrath cause i enjoy brutal slash a lot, but on single target fights im usually top dps with a pure dot build
For PvP id totally do BrS as well
put the haste into crit and you got something, i would still use deep focus over circle though. especially if going feral frenzy and not talons in a ‘‘bleed build’’ that .3 off your dot ticks doesnt seem like it would be anywhere close to a 40% flat damage bleed buff. Sudden ambush conduit is nice too in a bleed build.
are you getting haste for energy regen or for your dots to tick faster? cause that haste could be crit and would turn into actual damage in the form of abilities and dots critting and then generating extra combo points off the crit???
i understand crit damage is nerfed in pvp. but do people understand its basically the only passive mechanic feral has to generate combos besides omen of clarity auto attack procs. dont forget your class kit depends on combo points which do partially come from crits.
id imagine your damage comes very slowly, ticking quickly but doing small numbers, while im using apex predator i can get out 3 bites in 4 global cooldowns and kill somebody in 4 seconds without a convoke or berserk.
deep focus legendary-think blood talons but it buffs rake too, when you take blood talons you try to apply a talons rip with tigers fury and trinket procs and keep refreshing that super buffed rip with sabertooth talent bite refreshes. sabertooth over moonfire with deepfocus and feral frenzy is where its at. you still get decent bites, still get refresh rips, still have great bleed damage over time.
bleed build can work but haste and circle…could use improvement.
i would use deep focus for my bleed build but the moonfire buff doesnt work with lunar inspiration and cycle does
I see you are using Restoration Affinity; Have you tried Balance Affinity instead?
I know Vortex (resto affinity) is great to keep bleeds ticking while you walk away, but the range of Balance Affinity would help your bleeds hit more targets and also give you a sick opener (especially with HotW).
For your opener, pop into Moonkin form, and Wrath, Wrath, Moonfire, Sunfire and then do your Feral opener.
BUFF FERAL bleeds.
BUFF FERAL bleeds.
BUFF FERAL bleeds.
BUFF FERAL bleeds.
BUFF FERAL bleeds.
BUFF FERAL bleeds.
BUFF FERAL bleeds.
BUFF FERAL bleeds.
BUFF FERAL bleeds.
BUFF FERAL bleeds.
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I didn’t min max too much for PvE since I only did PvE for PvP upgrades but yeah Balance would be much better for the range bonus, I do use Savage Roar while I’m in PvE though, only difference from my PvP talents and PvE talents
Opening from moonkin is better than stunning from stealth?