Feeling kind of uncomfortable about a Sylvanas justification

Lore Story Forum
1

After the latest cinematic, people are pretty clear about Sylvanas getting redeemed and her actions justified now… but I feel like this doesn’t make a whole lot of sense?

She wants to give Anduin a choice, but denied thousands upon thousands of innocents the choice of their afterlife, and sent them right into the maw where they are eternally tortured and forged into weapons.

She also burned down Teldrassil and commited genocide against the night elves, an event that, to this day, is still lacking a resolution. Some of the night elf souls were freed, others destroyed. Sylvanas didn’t free them though, Tyrande and the player did, so Sylvanas can’t really take credit for this?

It just feels too sudden and forced that Sylvanas is suddenly a hero, something like this could’ve worked after Legion, but now after what she did in BfA, I’m not really able to make any sense out of it? Why does she hesitate now, but not when she funneled thousands if not millions of people of both factions right into the maw?

Have there been any official retcons about BfA? Because as someone who likes night elves and wanted to see some sort of justice done or resolution for Teldrassil, it makes me feel quite uncomfortable that this is just being glossed over, and it also makes me worry about Tyrande when the only options for her are to either die, or to be saved from the night warrior’s curse without seeing any justice done.
Some of the night elf souls might be freed, but they are still all dead, so I’d be really disappointed if this is considered “Justice for Teldrassil”.
Also about “Sylvanas was right”, if anything, she would have to realize that she was wrong? And not suddenly become a hero, but instead work towards redemption and make up to those that she wronged, which I don’t think is possible at this point anymore.

I’d like to hear what others think, I noticed the forums here are rather hostile towards night elves judging from what I’ve seen in the past days, but maybe there are a few people who have more to add to this than mere hostility.

7 Likes
2

Mmm, that’s two different things.

Being “justified” implies that what she did ends up being worth the cost. Which I don’t think is possible.

But being “redeemed” kinda just means she realizes she was wrong and tries to make amends.

35 Likes
3

It kind of makes me think that the team didn’t really want to burn Teldrassil, but were forced to by marketing or something. If we just pretend that it never happened, it’s way easier to smooth over some of the jagged details of her new character progression. It’s just the one puzzle piece that doesn’t fit. Rather than keeping the Teldrassil puzzle piece and forcing every other piece to fit in conjunction with it, maybe we should instead view it through the lens of Teldrassil being the piece that doesn’t belong, and “throw it out.”

4 Likes
4

That’s why I have been wondering if there have been any official retcons made about Teldrassil.

We still have Tyrande running around in the maw and freeing the souls, but this could also work if she freed the souls that died in Darkshore and Ashenvale if they weren’t named souls that died in Teldrassil (I think? Has this made it to live?)

The night warrior ritual I feel like was quite pointless, I don’t feel like this really paid off since the whole point of it was to get vengeance or justice for Teldrassil which to this day, we are still waiting for, but now I feel like the only thing that’s really going to happen is that Tyrande is at best going to go back to normal and be cleansed, or die. None of those options are really satisfying as they still lack any sort of justice against the architects of the night elf genocide

1 Like
5

i want to get off ms bones wild ride

5 Likes
6

I genuinely believe the writing in BfA was just bad and the C-Dev team knows it. They are correcting it in Shadowlands. With the rumor that Afrasiabi left and knowing how he was the lead cheerleader for retconing Sylvanas’s past (i.e. Wrathgate) and had a chip on his shoulder about Garrosh I think what we are seeing is a reversion of the writing team and correcting the terrible writing of BfA.

I’m not going to sit here and justify that the BfA Sylvanas matches the Shadowlands Sylvanas and that its a natural character arc. It isn’t.

It is a natural character arc for the Legion Sylvanas and if you removed everything that happened in BfA and just skipped from Sylvanas making a deal with Helya to now it would make 1,000 times more sense and would fit perfectly.

BfA is an aberration. Every aspect of storytelling in BfA was off, even the fancy CGI story ended up being just about how sad Saurfang is…Saurfang who almost single-handedly planned the War of Thorns. That’s how out of touch BfA’s writing team was.

My advice is to get to a place where you can let go of some of the emotionally exploitative storytelling BfA flaunted and get to a place where you can just enjoy Warcraft as Warcraft again.

46 Likes
7

I’m generally not opposed to ignoring everything that happened in BfA, but in this case, things would still look really bad for Night Elves as they lost their home, most of their population and their territory. If Blizzard said that they got all of those back, I could let go of it but now it just feels like they took a massive dump on the race and wants to move away from it as far as possible instead of correcting their mistakes.

Something that could also work is just giving them the territory back that they lost in BfA, have the dead Night Elves revived and give them an actual new city, though I know how unlikely that is.

I just can’t really live with the thought that Blizzard is trying to paint Sylvanas as someone good now while having spent more than an entire expansion showing how cruel and ruthless she is, with her main victims being the Night Elves.

1 Like
8

They said in a twitter post that ‘trees can be regrown’ and the Night Fae campaign heavily involves rescuing Night Elves and taking them back to what is literally a realm of rebirth. I think if we just ignore BFA even the Nelves will come out better off for forgetting what happened, they’re signalling that even their story will be softened to the point of nullification. And, I mean, is any Nelf fan going to complain about them getting good things?

Of course. But those people will always complain so why try to win them over by ruining it for others.

9

This is what I mean though about letting go of some of the emotional trauma of BfA that even Ion called exploitative.

They aren’t showing Sylvanas as good, they are showing her as 3 dimensional rather than the 1 dimensional Sylvanas we got in BfA. Sylvanas has always been a 3 dimensional character, the people who said her mustache-twirling villain act in BfA was who she always was are just wrong. It was just bad writing and too many people fell for it.

Also we have had unprecedented story focus on Night Elves. Tyrande is at the forefront of the story in a way she hasn’t been since Warcraft 3. We have an entire covenant that is tailor made for Night Elves. The Night Elves canonically won Darkshore. And we know that many Night Elves did survive Teldrassil.

Frankly few races have a better deal in Warcraft storytelling than Night Elves.

19 Likes
10

Does it matter all that much what they say on twitter as a joke comment though? The problem is that Night Elf souls have been obliterated… and we were forced to kill them. If we freed all of them, and actually got to revive them through Ardenweald, that would be great, but the former is already out of the question, and the latter remains to be seen, but Ardenweald’s story doesn’t exactly suggest that reviving mortal souls is a thing. It’s rather about wild gods that are being revived.

As for ignoring BfA, first what would need to happen is that the Night Elves get the things back that were permanently taken away from them in BfA. I can’t see Blizzard designing an entire new city for them, just can’t see it happening because they have never done that in the past unless it’s an expansion hub.
We also never had any confirmation about Ashenvale as far as I know, which is also quite an important Night Elf zone that just went into the hands of the Horde.

Well considering what Night Elves lost, I just can’t feel like it has all been resolved by just freeing a few of the Night Elf souls while watching others be destroyed, and I’m also not feeling good about Sylvanas taking the credit for that while Tyrande and the Player did it.

1 Like
11

I don’t think the narrative in the last datamined cinematic showed her actions were being justified. Instead, it looks like she’s beginning to doubt her motives and world view.

Which is the only way people could tolerate a “redemption” arch: if Sylvanas comes to see herself as wholly in the wrong.

But you’re right that this iteration of her is a break from past portrayals. Previously, Sylvanas hasn’t cared about other people. She was even willing to let the entire Forsaken nation be destroyed in Edge of Night once she got revenge on Arthas. She certainly didn’t care about offering a choice to the Night Elves, Forsaken she killed in Arathi, and in one of the books its revealed she explicitly wants to bring all of Stormwind to kneel. This is clearly a pivot and new interpretation of who she is.

5 Likes
12

Why? Honest question, do people believe that Sylvanas is morally incapable of committing genocide? I can understand being logically against it, but at that point she was allied with the Jailer.

She has wanted to use the plague against humanity. Attempted to use it in Gilneas. Wouldn’t have cared if the forsaken were wiped out until after her visit to the maw.

6 Likes
13

If you read the books before the storm and shadows rising you would know sylvanas actually has allot of respect for anduin and actually likes him so it makes sense she would feel quilt with him and offer him the choice as for teldrasil she had no relationship with them at all just nameless faces

14

I think you are giving them way too much credit. Let’s wait and see what they will “fix”. My guess is they can only break more at this point.

4 Likes
15

How much is there that can be corrected? Like or not, BfA is officially part of the setting. Nothing short of time travel hijinks will scrub it out. I can think of a few things that can maybe ease the sting, but nothing to really make any of BfA not still hang onto the story like a cancerous lump, dragging it all down.

I’d honestly argue she is more 2-dimensial really, like a coin. One side is genuine cruelty/ borderline evil. The other is sad and uncertain. A step up for sure from BfA, but 3 dimensial is still a stretch.

My honest advice to you Katheris, is to just stop paying any attention whatsoever to the story. Maybe read the odd quest text, but otherwise turn your brain off in regards to any lore that shows up. In WoW, ignorance truly is bliss.

3 Likes
16

I fixed that gilnean part for you :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

2 Likes
17

The only way they can correct it is by having Sylvanas lose, and experience a punishment that would make Arthas’ actions against her seem like a fond memory in comparison. You reap what you sow. That goes for Sylvanas, and those who wrote her. We crossed the point of no return two years ago.

But we’re not. So forget it.

There are several Night elven souls that have been destroyed, forever. Their last moments in torment, fear and grief.
Not to mention, them going to Ardenweald does little to ease the pain of those who still live. Or do you believe that We should start death cults in Azeroth that kills people off, so that they can go to “heaven”? Why not do it to the Forsaken. They seem miserable. Why not the orcs? The Tauren? The whole damned Horde?

Of course not. That kind of reasoning is just wrong. It doesn’t matter if the Night elves who died get to end up in good afterlives, because they shouldn’t have died in the first place.

5 Likes
18

So, my dear Morg, what do you want me to include in your Sylvanas Redemption Basket?

I mean the usual sugary goodies are a given, but anything else? Because I can’t wait to say I told you so when it happens

1 Like
19

I’m merely saying what would satisfy me. I’m 100% certain that Sylvanas is not getting any redemption. How she loses, well we’ll see.

Mind telling me why you think she will get a redemption arc? In return, I will tell you why i’m certain she won’t.

20

It’s mostly pure meta reasons. She’s the literal face of the franchise, mention Warcraft and people immediately picture her and Arthas.

It’s too painfully obvious to have her die. Blizz is going to try and be clever with a Bet you didn’t see that coming curveball.

Besides, does she really need to die? There are people who did a lot worse than her after all.