Feeling kind of uncomfortable about a Sylvanas justification

Pretty sure she is getting one. It will still end up in her death though.

OP, I honestly don’t know what to wish for at this point. I know Sylvanas wil die, I suppose that should count as justice, but she will probably die while making it look good for her. Which is really poor for someone that had “countless innocents murdered”. But I still expect Tyrande to shove her into a bottomless pit in the Maw after that, just to balance it all out.

I mean, just because Sylvanas gets a redemption arc doesn’t mean they have to depict Tyrande as an angel . I love that they still manage to show Tyrande with balls to do what has to be done tbh. And I expect her to fulfill her oath to the obliterated night elf souls.

Personally, I want her to die like Kil’jaeden.

We confront her like we do so many others and put them to the sword. As she lay dying and defeated she reveals the truth; Despite everything she has done, she truly, truly just wanted to be happy. She thought she had to do everything to reject her fate and in the end failed. Perhaps we (the players) can succeed.

Then she dies, and like Arthas the survivors (who care) decide to remember the woman she was, not the tragedy she became.

Thus Sylvanas is taken out of the of the story, her redemption comes with her realizing she was wrong, maybe even sorry for her many crimes, and hopes that the player can keep the spark of hope she tried so hard to bury.

I can’t see any other way for this story to end. Cause just killing her would be boring and means we spent the last 2 expansions building up a very bland villain.

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Well, you HOPE she dies. Because, really, there’s no guarantee she’s going to. I’ve said it before, I’m not opposed to her being redeemed.

With her new Shalamourne, blizz is really doubling down on the Arthas parallels, and since the helm of damnation is supposedly getting reforged sometime this expac, maybe she’ll end up being the new Jailer of the Damned and do a better job than Zooval.

Keeps her alive, but allows blizz to use her in the future. Which would be fine with me

I’m not so sure about that. How it looks like to me, most of the Night Fae and Tyrande campaign is already over, and the entire campaign doesn’t have any more Night Warrior chapters than those that are already live.

I think Tyrande is at best going to lose her Night Warrior powers and at worst going to die. Even though the “at best option” isn’t really good since she can’t see justice done. I just wonder what happens to Thrall’s promise, a way out for Blizz would be to have Tyrande die so that Thrall wouldn’t have to keep his promise.

I know that Sylvanas is getting a redemption (justification, because I certainly don’t see her admitting that she was wrong and willing to make up for anything, that’s not in character for her at all) and that she won’t die this expansion but my greatest concern is what will happen to the Night Elves and Tyrande because of this.

To me it just felt like more of Anduin being the best boy.

Of course she’s murdered countless civilians, even Forsaken ones while they actively displayed their loyalty to her, but be fair. They weren’t Anduin.

He’s just far too sweet and handsome to thoughtlessly torture into submission even though that was her knee jerk reaction to Derek Proudmoore. And of course he gets her to second guess her decisions in the span of a few chats because he’s just that clever and charismatic.

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No, I think she, like Tyrande, has outlived her usefulness/ exposure.

I don’t necessarily want her to die, her character fascinates me, I just think the writing is on the wall, and Blizzard isn’t very subtle. I also think that this will be Tyrande’s last expansion (I’ve always said this and given reasons why), so they’ll give her that final moment of fulfilling her oath.

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See, this is the crazy thing. Did she even know Anduin existed until sometime after she died? Has she ever even been in the same room as him? I honestly don’t know that one even! I know they were both in War Crimes, but its not as if they had any interaction there…

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I might have been misreading, but she didn’t have respect for Anduin lol. She had begrudging respect for his father, but saw Anduin as a weak child who hasn’t earned his place yet and could be pushed around.

She did note that the others followed him out of respect tho, not that he was a good leader.

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Do they? Arthas I can agree with, but Sylvanas only had prominence in wotlk, after which she fell into obscurity, until bfa. Yes I know she had a few moments inbetween, but nothing major.

When Danouser said he loved Sylvanas, I think he wanted to bring her character back to life from the skeleton she had become. Not as a hero or antihero, but as a villain.

If you want a character to be seen as sympathetic, you’d best do the opposite of what they did with her in bfa. The narrative have repeatadly beaten it over our collective heads that Sylvanas is in the wrong for what she has done, and never once have we been told that she is right. Plus blizzard knows now, more than ever, how Alliance players feel about Sylvanas, and Teldrassil. They know exactly how well a redemption is going to go over. Bloody hell just look at the forums now, how people are reacting to the very posibillity of her evading justice.

You mean like Teldrassil? Where people guessed correctly, within 3 seconds of looking at that picture, who did the deed? Or how they thought Bolvar having his soul split was subtle, when it they couldn’t have made it more obvious?
Blizzard doesn’t do subtle. You should know that by now. And they don’t do twists either.

Name one, who got any redemption story. And name one who did it against a playable race.

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Hence why I said try, I’m painfully aware they’re terrible at it.

Arthas, who slaughtered 90% of the Blood elf race.

You mean the guy who is reviled by every existing being on Azeroth, and who is currently in the maw? Where in the lore, has anyone even suggested that he deserves redemption?

When Uther threw him in the maw, he regrets it not because he thought Arthas was innocent, but because he did it not for justice, but for selfish revenge. No where does he suggest that he forgives Arthas, or thinks that he was right.

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The Night Fae rescue named characters from Teldrassil. The quests were added into game on December 26th. Prior to that they helped rescue random souls from Torghast. in Chapter 3.

I actually think she’ll go out like Elisande. We kill her then but then an echo of her or her spirit then aids us in the Jailer fight.

The patches are bound to include more chapters for the covenant campaign. There’s also Ysera’s vision of Tyrande saving Ardenweald to consider.

Out of curiosity, should Tyrande kick the bucket, would you want Malfurion as the sole Night Elf leader or want someone(s) to step beside him? Like either Shandris taking Tyrande’s place or a council style leadership for the Night Elves with Malfurion, Shandris, and Maiev?

God, amen. Nothing makes me angrier than the line where he’s sitting there, looking out over a battlefield and thinking, “These kaldorei are defending their homes and families, that makes them fight hard! This is a good war.”

Like orchestrating the murder of night elves was just a good ol’ football game.

This, I can agree with. If you cut out all the bad stuff she did in BfA, then… I agree. If Teldrassil, Undercity, and the betrayal of the Horde were just poof, then… You know, yeah, I could see it.

Unfortunately, it’s really hard to look around the mountain of flaming tree trash that is the BfA narrative.

I don’t know, the feeling I’ve gotten from interviews that I’ve read is that Hazzicostas and Danuser are pretty happy with the BfA story. Maybe that was Afrasiabi? Maybe it’s Blizzard’s trademark “We can’t do anything wrong” mentality, but… I don’t know if it was just Afrasiabi.

Alright, hol’ up, let’s break this down.

Ehh… Nah. She has two lines then yeets herself into the Maw, not to be seen unless you choose Night Fae. Meanwhile, everyone and their mother is mumbling, “She’s going down a dark path…” Compared to Anduin, Bolvar, Jaina, Thrall, and Baine? I get the latter two were shafted, but at least every player sees them, and every character supports them.

However, Night Fae is the apology zone for night elves, so it makes sense to tuck her story away there. The levelling experience is too standalone for me to call it tailor-made, but if I had to pick a playable race to match-up with Night Fae, it’s the night elves hands down.

Let’s not get the confetti and champagne out. The dribble of story we got to do was one of the biggest back-handed compliments (if not an outright slap to the face), that being the atrocious Night Warrior tie with Nathanos. Darkshore was won off-screen, not even confirmed in-game. It was confirmed in a Dev Q&A, then a quick cinematic (that I still haven’t seen in-game because they almost forgot to put it in) was hastily put together. All of the cinematics were in-game puppetted marble-gargling.

Compared to how the loss was depicted? The loss had one of the biggest prepatch events, two novelles, and a warbringers cinematic devoted to it. In all of those beautiful Saurfang cinematics, night elves have 3 seconds of screentime, and it’s literally their being burned alive as window dressing for how sad the orc is.

It’s not that we lost, it’s how much of a show of it Blizzard made. That’s why it’s so hard to look past BfA from our perspective. I’m not saying the Horde didn’t lose, and didn’t lose hard. I’m not saying your character roster doesn’t need a significant boost. I just saying they turned the night elves’ loss into eye candy and spectacle, which really makes it feel worst.

And lastly…

In the same way that “many Thalassians survived Arthas’s attack”. 9/10 Thalassians were killed. Per the quest at the end of War of Thorns, those percentages were probably about the same for the night elves. Sure, that’s probably thousands remaining, but imagine living where nine out of every ten people to whom you were close died.

Markedly worse when those 9/10 were sent to be, at best, tortured and, at worst, destroyed for all eternity to be converted into weapons and monsters. Sure, we save some of then, but we are also forced to destroy others because it’s too late for them.

So, the fact that absolute numbers, we’re probably fine… Not really a consolation.

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No one said anything about that. You asked and I simply gave an answer. Nothing more, nothing less. Literally no one tried to justify it.

Altough I personally hate this idea of “redemption”, the cinematic makes sense.

It is the FIRST time that she is doing something personal level related DIRECTLY. I mean, Teldrassil? She ordered. BFA? Mostly was his cuckdog Nathanos doing the stuff.

Pacts (Helya), Orders, lapdogs, I mean, the first time she had to do something by herself was the Saurfang Makgora and the pathetic Bolvar beatup.

But, right now, she is doing the same stuff Arthas did to her, not only killing an enemy leader, but corrupting his essence on a weapon to use. Her mindless babbling LOOK AT CURSE HE PUT ON US, OHH THE SUFFERING, as she is doing the exact same thing, means absolutly nothing. She knows that, and because of this almost begs for Manduin to give up and surrender, so she does not need to show up as an hypocrite little thing.

The same shots from arthas journey on the cutscenes reinforces this path of narrative.

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I asked you this

And you answered with this

Where’s the redemption you talk about? People’s headcannon on the forums?

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This is what I think is causing her hold up. It makes more sense than some of the other theories. For all of her talk, she doesn’t have the stones to do to Anduin literally what Arthas did to her. And, you know… That’s not the worst explanation.

I still don’t like it, but it’s not the worst.

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I’ll admit I jumped the gun when I read the question. My mind read it as Name one who slaughtered a playable race and left out the redemption part :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Really? Are these the campaign scenario quests, or something like dailies?

I would be happy with a council, simply because I don’t think any of those leaders are capable of handling different facets of their culture. But we know how Blizzard handles leaders vs councils, just look at the dwarves or Rommath/Halduron, in which case I would rather have Malfurion step in and play the role he should’ve played a long time back. Darnassus is a theocracy which means the leadership would go to the next high priestess, but we know nothing about who’s next in line.

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This. I don’t necessarily mind a council (druids, sentinels, priesthood), but that council needs to be headed by the next High Priestess. After all, though political power has largely resided with the Sisterhood, the Cenarion Circle hasn’t exactly been entirely removed from the kaldorei political stage either. That might have largely been Staghelm’s vying for power, but with his replacement being the husband of the High Priestess, it hasn’t necessarily gotten better.

I mean… Don’t kill Tyrande. But, a council’s not the worst way to go if they feel compelled by God and anime to do so.