Fury is in a similar situation, where Thane generates way more than Slayer does. Though I don’t claim to be an expert on Prot, I imagine the intent is to offset the increased potency of Colossus’ Ignore Pain with greater availability of Thane’s higher rage generation.
That said, it’s certainly worth considering. Someone should probably consider putting together some nice little infographs or even just generate some logs to clearly demonstrate the disconnect.
My CURRENT spec, I have just been messing about with for like a month. I WANT to go back to all those talents on the left side that improve Bloodthirst how I had it set up basically as I had for my Annihilator build, minus Annihilator. My CURRENT spec has no bearing on what I am talking about here. Annihilator sucked, and Bloodthirst sucked, so I wanted to mess about more with Raging Blow stuff. And now I want to go back since supposedly Bloodthirst is supposed to be good again (which it should be, since it used to be THE core Fury ability back in the day, same with Mortal Strike for Arms, and Shield Slam for Protection).
Gotta be honest, I have no idea what you’re talking about here. Your comments are all over the place and pretty hard to follow.
So if I understand you correctly, you want to ignore the entire right hand side of the tree and still talent into Odyn’s Fury?
Improved Whirlwind and Meat Cleaver would seem to solve your problem. They provide a massive buff to Thunder Clap, allowing your abilities to cleave and grant access to Odyn’s Fury. You can still take all the Bloodthirst stuff at the same time, and be no worse for wear.
Just a note on this: every class uses the same box and the box spits out weapons based on available specializations: 1h + Shield for Protection, 1x 2h for Arms, 2x 2hr for Fury. That’s why you get one 1h and three 2h weapons. It’s specifically because someone didn’t curate a loadout for each class by hand and just let the system spit out something for each spec.
You can also just click the box again to get more gear, or buy stuff from the test vendors.
Simply put, yes. The spec I had, when I was still using Annihilator, for the most part was everything straight down the middle (except Depths/Unbridled), and to the left. The entire right side of the tree was untouched. I was trying to hit BT as frequently as I could, until I realized finally that even with SMF, I should just ignore that button entirely, try to get rid of almost all my BT talents, and focus on RB, Rampage, and Onslaught.
I hate that our “core” ability is garbage, and that SMF is still an absolute joke. But I want to continue playing SMF as long as it’s around, and I WANT to have BT as part of my core rotation again.
I don’t care that Whirlwind talents help Thunder Clap. I just don’t want to hit Whirlwind when I can hit Thunder Clap. It’s not like the talents I was using before had any benefit to Whirlwind, so it won’t change anything there. I’ll just be switching one ability that is untalented garbage for another.
It feels like you are fundamentally misunderstanding how Mountain Thane works, so let me try to be crystal clear here:
You have to help me here, because I really do not understand your aversion to taking the talents that directly buff the ability you say you want to use. 25% extra damage on Thunder Clap is huge, as is being able to cleave your rotation after using Thunder Clap, and it completely solves your pathing problem.
From yesterday’s development notes:
The changes to the two capstones for Arms’s Avatar feel pretty bad. This is discouraging.
The Arms update to Warlord’s Torment – and further rage changes – have been this way for awhile on TWW Beta/Alpha. For the most part the rage changes are fine. But it deserves to be repeated: execute feels absolutely dreadful due to how rage starved we get. Arms warrior shouldn’t dread execute. This talent alone isn’t the fix, but it certainly doesn’t help.
Through its interaction with Unhinged, the Bladestorm verison of Blademaster’s Torment previously could give at least some single target value in addition to its AOE value. It now provides no single target value for Arms unless you count pressing Cleave frequently in Single Target to fish for CDR of Demolish in Colossus.
If one of the concerns is that Bladestorm uptime is disruptive for Arms specifically, could the length of Arms’s Bladestorm be made shorter without reducing its ticks? Perhaps more like that of Fury’s?
-ignore pain reduces much less damage than the tooltip states
Fury does not have Blademaster’s Torment at all.
Going from DF to TWW with the changes so far for Arms, it feels like the AoE gameplay was slightly improved, but at the cost of the ST gameplay getting downgraded.
I’m not a huge fan of the Cleave spam, but its not the worst thing ever, it mostly just has a weak sound effect that I dislike and the positional aiming of it can feel clunky at times. Not a big deal 95% of the time, though.
Losing big WW was a mistake. It removes a button from the already very simple ST rotation, and was the most satisfying rotational button Arms had in AoE. Cleave doesn’t come close outside of the occasional Collateral Damage + MBG juicing.
Colossus generally feels alright, but in practice in dungeon gameplay can feel clunky.
Slayer is a surprising winner for me, on paper I liked it the least but it is my favorite hero talent from a gameplay PoV for both specs.
Mortal Strike completely overshadows everything else in the ST damage profile, and it feels lame as hell. Overpower and MS availability are still just too high and proc off of each other too often. Any time I get a string of 3 or more MS>OP>MS>OP… chains, it doesn’t feel exciting, it feels like a design failure and is very boring. I despise feeling like a 2 button spec so often.
Overall, I just struggle to find anything exciting about playing Arms in TWW compared to DF. It’s better in some ways and worse in others, and ultimately just comes out net neutral in my eyes, which is a disappointing place to be.
I’ve always been an Arms enjoyer and Fury hater, but I find myself quite a bit more excited about playing Fury in TWW. The addition of Bladestorm, the big buff to Odyn’s Fury, the addition of Powerful Enrage for a slower, meatier Fury playstyle, then with 2 solid hero talent options, it all comes together quite nicely. It’s still not perfect, but there’s definitely a lot more positive to say for Fury imo.
I’ve been playing Cata Classic as Arms, and I gotta say, it makes me so sad that Blizzard got Arms so right 14 years ago and, in my eyes, has taken so many steps back since then. This is not nostalgia talking, I didn’t start playing the game until Legion. I am playing a very noticeably more fun version of the spec right now on a 14 year old version of the game. That isn’t to say that Cata Arms is perfect, and it would need a fair amount of adjustments to fit into the modern game, but it is still just so much more engaging and satisfying to play. Just sad to see.
They can still have two bladestorms, however, via a talent choice node in the Fury tree.
Yeah, a weak talent nobody takes that reduces the effectiveness of bladestorm.
Also it just adds another charge of bladestorm, it does not grant 2 separately recharging bladestorms.
So, I think that the Blademaster’s Torment redesign is absolutely horrible for pvp and is an automatic non choice for anyone doing pvp.
This is just from a colossus arms warrior pov.
Cleave isn’t particularly good for pvp due to targets being spread out, so it won’t be a consistent way to build colossus might stacks while mortal strike always guarantees at least one stack of colossus might.
And, the fact that the new Blademaster’s Torment actually consumes your sweeping strikes cooldown makes it entirely pointless. If I really wanted to bake sweeping strikes into avatar, I would just make a macro to do that. Just horrible, IMO.
Video explaining my feedback on this redesigned talent here. I think this redesign needs a redesign. 
Yeah, in a numbers sense Unhinged is definitely noticeable. There just isn’t much actual interaction prior to pressing the button aside from being enraged and having Meat Cleaver charges available (if it even cleaves; I assume they carried the same logic from the Shadowlands legendary which allowed the Mortal Strike casts to cleave with Sweeping Strikes up). I suppose it’s fine to just view it as an “Enhanced Bladestorm”.
I think this would be a great split, honestly.
That’s clearly a bug. The exact same issue occurred with every other version of Torment (original Blademasters, Titans, and even Berserkers) when they were first introduced.
No argument there, was just interpreting what he was saying. 
Even if it is a bug, there isn’t too much benefit if you have the talent that extends sweeping strikes. If it doesn’t consume the cooldown, then you can seal the gap with a following sweeping strikes (which would be nice). But, if not then I still don’t think it would be worth taking over recklessness (for pvp).
Normal Sweeping Strikes and Torment procced ones do not currently combine durations (which is also a bug, as evidenced by the fact that every other Torment proc does combine their durations).
Once that gets fixed, Blademaster’s gives you 93% uptime on Improved Sweeping Strikes, compared to the 70% normally, which is fairly compelling, if perhaps not necessarily as good in PvP.
I don’t really have desire to get bogged down in PvP discussions, but I do think it’s worth considering the possibility that the combination of natural casts, Slayer CDR, and Blademaster’s might have been deemed too much in PvP, regardless of how good the new options are/not. Especially with the damage buffs and Unhinged making it a much stronger offensive tool at the same time.
Mind expanding on this? Neither Cleave nor Whirlwind were used in TWW single target rotation, so all it did was eliminate a button from the multitarget one.
In The War Within, Cleave is outright stronger than Whirlwind and has all the same interactions.
I am talking about the jump from DF to TWW Arms gameplay, not earlier TWW gameplay to the current.
Old SoS WW has (obviously) not been a thing for all of TWW, and to me, that is a major loss when moving from DF into the prepatch and beyond.
That’s understandable, but I think you do need to consider the sequence here. Your issue isn’t that Cleave replaces Whirlwind, so much that Storm of Swords was changed in the first place, which are two very different points of feedback.
Individual feelings on the removal of Storm of Swords Whirlwind and overall button bloat aside, the talent wouldn’t work very well with Arms’ new rage economy anyway.