No argument there, was just interpreting what he was saying. 
Even if it is a bug, there isn’t too much benefit if you have the talent that extends sweeping strikes. If it doesn’t consume the cooldown, then you can seal the gap with a following sweeping strikes (which would be nice). But, if not then I still don’t think it would be worth taking over recklessness (for pvp).
Normal Sweeping Strikes and Torment procced ones do not currently combine durations (which is also a bug, as evidenced by the fact that every other Torment proc does combine their durations).
Once that gets fixed, Blademaster’s gives you 93% uptime on Improved Sweeping Strikes, compared to the 70% normally, which is fairly compelling, if perhaps not necessarily as good in PvP.
I don’t really have desire to get bogged down in PvP discussions, but I do think it’s worth considering the possibility that the combination of natural casts, Slayer CDR, and Blademaster’s might have been deemed too much in PvP, regardless of how good the new options are/not. Especially with the damage buffs and Unhinged making it a much stronger offensive tool at the same time.
Mind expanding on this? Neither Cleave nor Whirlwind were used in TWW single target rotation, so all it did was eliminate a button from the multitarget one.
In The War Within, Cleave is outright stronger than Whirlwind and has all the same interactions.
I am talking about the jump from DF to TWW Arms gameplay, not earlier TWW gameplay to the current.
Old SoS WW has (obviously) not been a thing for all of TWW, and to me, that is a major loss when moving from DF into the prepatch and beyond.
That’s understandable, but I think you do need to consider the sequence here. Your issue isn’t that Cleave replaces Whirlwind, so much that Storm of Swords was changed in the first place, which are two very different points of feedback.
Individual feelings on the removal of Storm of Swords Whirlwind and overall button bloat aside, the talent wouldn’t work very well with Arms’ new rage economy anyway.
No. They are different, but linked. Cleave should not have replaced Whirlwind, and the old SoS should’ve been baselined. There is plenty of room in the current AoE rotation for a medium-length CD WW that does significant damage to exist, and I think the ST rotation similarly benefited from having an additional medium-length CD to use.
I have noticed a trend in your responses to feedback in this thread, with this being another example. Whether or not it is intentional, you tend to misunderstand or misrepresent someone’s post, take it completely literally at face value, and toss it aside on that basis.
Like in this example, it seems obvious to me that the 60 rage requirement for the old SoS wouldn’t work in the new rage economy. So obvious, that it doesn’t even need to be said. As important as the 60 rage was for the spec overall in terms of how it interacted with AM/ToM, it didn’t actually mean much of anything on a moment-to-moment gameplay basis. Clearly, the important part here is the “WW has a cooldown and does more damage”, when we’re talking about actual gameplay.
So when I say losing the big Whirlwind was a mistake, and you just respond with “it costs 60 rage, wouldn’t work”, that’s just laughable and overly dismissive. You could very easily just keep the rage cost at 20/30, give it an appropriate cooldown, and adjust the DPR as needed to make it function. Call me crazy, but it seems so blindingly obvious to me that these adjustments would need to be made to keep the gameplay of the big WW, so much so that it should be implied for someone who claims to be so knowledgeable.
Combine this trend with your incessant need to reply to every post, when I wager anyone who isn’t in the warrior discord does not care about your opinion at all, and it’s really just insufferable. No other class feedback thread has a guy in it constantly replying to every post with their own misinterpretations and misrepresentations, and they are all better off for it. It’s exhausting.
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What’s insufferable is your obsession with a specific button, and the fact that the spec rotations change patch to patch as they always have, and he’s merely stating why your concern isn’t a necessary concern, but merely design choice that doesn’t actually change anything negatively, outside the fact that you’re losing WW as a button.
Archi spends HOURS of his free time communicating with all of us on the forums and discord, and directly takes things to Blizz for us; he is a massive positive in our community that we’re lucky to have and other class feedbacks NOT having an Archi is a negative, not a positive.
The game changes, the rotation changes, where your damage comes from changes, get over it, because dropping WW to a CD ability w 20/30 rage would do NOTHING for your damage but increase button bloat for ZERO positive reason.
The arrogance and anger is so baseless that I can’t believe I just read it, and your last 2 words describe you and your tone, and quite frankly your post in general, perfectly.
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No offense, but your failure to accurately describe your desire is not my problem. Nobody should be expected to guess or assume what it is you’re trying to convey.
Maybe the big Whirlwind could have been retained, but players have been complaining about Arms’ button bloat for the entirety of Dragonflight, and that ability was a prime example of it - even more so if it has the same rage cost and interactions as the normal rotational fillers. The only advantage is rotational variety, and that already exists in the other four non-talented rotational abilities. Clearly it’s something deeply important to you, so you’re going to be a lot more sensitive about it, but to everyone else, it’s just pointless bloat.
You might be right about one thing though, maybe I shouldn’t be wasting my time or anyone else’s by humoring badly constructed feedback from people who barely understand how the class works. Silly me, I actually think that even casual players can provide constructive insight and discussion, but you might just prove me wrong.
This combative attitude is a perfect example why so few people bother with the forums anymore in the first place. The forums are not a closed suggestion box, they’re for discussion. Nobody is forcing you though; if you don’t want to have a discussion about your ideas… just don’t respond.
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Raging Blow
I’m enjoying Raging Blow as the general filler for all things Fury. But looking at its place in the rotation I have three thoughts.
- When Execute is available it largely pushes Raging Blow out of the rotation which makes me wonder if some Raging Blow bonuses could also apply to Execute.
- Talents like Slaughtering Strikes and Bloodcraze are the most immediate examples
- The current Fury 4-piece tier bonus is essentially non-existent even if you try to build into proccing it as much as possible because Raging Blow is just the low priority filler now (which is fine)
Whirlwind Filler
I’d like to take this opportunity to again ask for Improved Whirlwind to be made baseline while I’m on the topic of fillers. Even if Slam does more damage a zero rage filler in untalented Whirlwind or Slam does not feel satisfying at all to press.
Additionally I think there can be an opportunity in that part of the tree combined with Meat Cleaver to let people empower Whirlwind if they so choose. Whether it’s a proc along the lines of Wrecking Ball that we had in the past or a more passive option like Storm of Swords in Dragonflight. It just makes me a little sad to see whirlwind be such a pathetic damage amount with no ability to change it.
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As someone who gives feedback on Software for a living, you’re making such a large assumption that someone would draw that conclusion, and even your explanation has me asking, “Than what’s the actual issue/point of feedback here?”
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1 suggestion to add a little flavor to Arms, rework Skullsplitter. Make it AOE, reduce the damage to nothing or nearly nothing and add thunderous roar the bleed damage to the speed increase.
Edit: Also did testing on Skullsplitter, it halves the time of the dot but also halves the damage making it 0 gain in dps.
Edit Edit: It’s actually a dps loss. Needs fixing badly!
Ok, seriously! Unhinged does not work. Does not provide any Mortal Strike at all. Just deep wounds. At least for ravager.
Edit: Works for Bladestorm, got 3. But fix ravager
Cleaves damage is not increased by 50% during ravager
Sadly we’re just going to have to wait with some things to get fixed before we can properly test them, either numerical wise or just the interactions themselves are broken. Rogues are suffering hard right now with this being the case as a very large majority of their hero talents are broken.
Just going to have to come back every week during different builds and see if the interaction is fixed.
Thanks for the correction. My bad on the oversight!
Does anyone notice that the Demolish animation stops early? Is it a graphical issue or…?
The cast is hasted, but the animation is not, so once you reach ~30% haste it starts to noticeably cut off early. It’s a visual bug that will probably get fixed at some point, but probably not the highest priority one right now, since it isn’t affecting performance.
2 Likes
Both of these work consistently for me. Might be another factor clouding things.
Remember that the Mortal Strikes from Unhinged come from you, not Ravager, so if you move out of melee range they won’t fire.
It does not half the damage, it increases the tick time from 1 tick/3s to 1 tick/1.5s (hasted), while halving the duration to retain the same damage over a shorter period of time.
You can see here Rend has 6 ticks for 24,989 each both with and without Skullsplitter, the difference is that the former took 15 seconds and the latter took only 7.5.
The benefit is compressing the damage into cooldown windows and getting more total ticks over the course of an encounter, and although it is currently a weak talent, the mechanic is not actually a damage loss.
I’ve definitely been noticing it too. This is feedback to the devs about something we noticed or don’t like in the beta. It’s not actually a discussion forum with people who feel “your opinion is wrong and I must tell you why it is wrong” constantly having an overwhelming urge to jump in the middle of it.
1 Like
Bro, nobody is here to get your opinion. You are going out of your way to explain to people why you think they are bad at the game. You need to stop.
I play Single-Minded Fury. That ALONE should tell you I don’t care about talents that directly buff my ability for anything.
I’ve explained very clearly what I am having an issue with, and you are going out of your way to misunderstand stuff I am not even talking about so that you can feel important. Stop.
2 Likes