Feedback: Templar Paladin in The War Within

Classes Paladin
82

So after coming back i find you released both talents and so far as a pvper herald gives me nothing to be excited about so templar it is.

First of all is the intent to have one be clearly pvp and one be pve? Herald buffing and having echo effects on divine storm and not final verdict already tells me blizzard is designing these with pvp or pve profile in mind. Is that intended?

Also templar skill having a FIVE holy power cost makes it so you would probably use it right away after 2hp plus woa 3hp but it doesnt really feel good to deplete your entire hp bar in one cast.

Is hammer of light like a proper nuke? For 5hp I would hope so

83

This would be the best choice for blizz to make if they remain to keep wake the center of both tree’s.

but even if they choose to not put it where DS is at, anywhere in the first 3 rows will work too, since we pick up most of it anyways.

1 Like
85

I’m gonna go with no.

None of the talent tree so far have shown that they were design with any intent to cater to PVP at all.

In fact, they are all focused on PVE with some specific talent talents (1-2) that can be useful in PVP and usually on choice nodes.

If templar or herald end up “better” for PVP it will most likely be accidental.

I don’t think the “intent” behind the development of this feature has anything to do with PVP.

Will probably be heavily nerfed in PVP anyway.

86

It might be better to go with herald for pvp anyways, with the possible passive healing and eternal flame it has. It will help with survivability for self and team if they keep the ret WoG cheat death talent.

87

Both will be nerfed to inconsequential status.

The only boon Herald will offer for PVP is the 50% slow on enemies when you pop your wings.
Effectively making you stick better to your target.

88

Its not even a matter of will, they are going to be inconsequential if eternal flame inherits WoG’s current pvp modifier. Praying that Sunspot will be an undispellable effect as well.

89

I mean ofcourse it doesnt have a pvp tag wrotten in it but we all know.

You design a hero spec with “pillars of light” that are close to useless in pvp (just like consecration) and Im already rolling my eyes and looking at templar.

Hammer of light if it hits hard its already a better button than sunspot. Herald has a single node that increases spenders but thats it. Thats also tied to tunning so I wont lose speep.

My point about hammer of light being a nuke comes from the 5hp cost. It wont feel good to have a 5hp skill that does meager to moderate damage. Id say remive the hp cost so my expectations are tamed dont you think

2 Likes
90

Ohh it will, you’re right.

Ret will gain no significant amount of off-healing from this in PVP.
I guarantee it.

In fact, any PVP-only players should probably look at this with the utmost detachment because odds are most of this will be nerfed in it.

91

I also want to add that for being a hero spec shared by prot and ret it really has nothing in terms of duravility or tankiness. Its all mostly damage increases. A 10% sov is not interesting or desirable.

Look at the colosus hero spec they have a 15% extra ignore pain and a proc for more healing in second wind. I was expecting these hero specs to have a bit of both just a bit. The 5% reduced damage tied ti a CRIT tied to a baby hammer thats not always active feels like trash.

What about "enemies hit by hammer of light are overwhelmed by its holy power and deal 10-15% reduced damage to you for X seconds.

Or

“Hammer of light empowers you to recieve 10% less damage from all sources for x seconds”

Something needs to say “protection”. Even the nodes that are about blessing of sacrifice are useless.

“After Blessing of sacrifice ends it causes your target to heal for a X% of the damage taken during its duration”

Or

“Blessing of sacrifice now redirects 50% - 60% of the damage taken to you and no longer has a limit buffer. BoS now puts you in lights martyr state. Lights martyr increases all your healing done by x% for 10 seconds after BoS ends.”

Idk I am sure blizzard devs can come up with better ideas to make hammer or light also have defensive or support value.

1 Like
92

I would love to keep a piece of the conversation going around the class fantasy of being a Templar!

I firmly believe the theme of this Hero Spec needs more to make it feel like a genuine concept that can be recognizable and felt outside of a typical Paladin.

Adding in a few more points piggybacking off of my previous reply, but the theme should absolutely be grounded on swords, holystrike damage and the physical prowess of the Paladin player character. This really helps to also differentiate Templar from Herald of the Sun as both will be enhancing Wake of Ashes with their Hero Talents.

Wake of Ashes is what triggers Light’s Guidance. Wake of Ashes comes from the Ashbringer which is the iconic Paladin sword. It makes logical sense that the ability we are using to augment us into a Templar Paladin, follows suit with that theme.

The Paladin class icon is a hammer. In my opinion, the general way of viewing Retribution Paladins in particular are with Hammers and Maces. But a Templar should be more specialized compared to that of a standard Paladin. Having Templar double down on Hammers isn’t fulfilling a unique class fantasy archetype that is easily distinguishable from a Paladin.

1 Like
93

I don’t know, so far I love the idea of this tree a lot. Chain gunning light hammers of righteous vengeance sound awesome, and seeing it in action will hopefully live up to it

94

I agree, This tree don’t sound very physical as would be expected from a tree named templar.

I suppose making hammers fall everywhere get’s ppl’s want to RP mario’s hammer bro’s theme can work, but it needs to be named something other than templar.

1 Like
95

I agree here. If the design is to stay the way it currently is, revolving around Hammers, Templar should be renamed to something like Zealot instead.

And regardless we still need much more emphasis on the physical prowess of the Paladin to help separate this Hero Spec from Herald of the Sun.

More Holystrike focus please!

96

This is another greivance for me, both tree’s ignores holystrike completely. It’s a theme that is not even bothered to be mentioned in them. It makes me think that there is a possibility if they will rework the ret tree to remove holystrike completely as a theme of the spec too.

1 Like
97

Do you or anyone else remember those 2 talents that we had for a brief time on the 10.0.7 PTR cycle for Retribution?

Burning Crusade and Holy Crusader. Essentially, this is exactly what both Hero Specs should be aiming at and currently, Herald of the Sun has decently captured the Burning Crusader class fantasy.

The same should not be said for Templar in its first iteration. It does not feel very much like a Holy Crusader who excels at dealing mighty Holystrike damage.

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98

Unfortunately I was tuned out of WoW during that time. So I wouldn’t be able to comment on those, but they sound interesting.

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99

Here were their working descriptions to help fill you in!

Holy Crusader - Blade of Justice and Expurgation now deal Holystrike (Physical and Holy) damage.

Burning Crusade - Blade of Justice and Expurgation now deal Radiant (Fire and Holy) damage.

1 Like
100

Essentially for 5 holy power I would expect it to be doing a lot of damage, if it doesn’t then we riot but I am pretty sure it will have to. Empyrean hammers might be smaller damage but Hammer of Light should be very hard hitting considering its only once every 30 sec, sometimes twice (once for free) every 30 sec with capstone, so at a 5 holy power cost and 30 sec cd I would assume it will hit harder than an FV. We will see though.

In terms of PvP I see a lot I’m excited for in this tree. Herald not so much, but templar has quite a bit. Reducing damage dealt to you by 5% passively on both enemy dps is quite nice, having a node that reduces sac damage taken by you by 20% and increases move speed by essentially 40% is also very good (this node competes with 2 secs on divine steed+30% extra move speed for first 3 seconds) but i think the sac node will end up being better. This essentially gives us another mobility option if you use sac on cd which you usually can in pvp anyway. Then we have the 10% SoV every 30 seconds, this really should get buffed a bit as 10% is very small but it is a little bit of survivability, i’d say it should probably be 20% if we look at other passive defensive options specs are getting.

So this tree has survivability (5% damage reduction on all targets hit by empyrean hammer crits, 10% sov every 30 secs) and mobility as well on top of having potentially yet to be seen very high damage. I am very excited for the potential this tree has in pvp tbh. Like you were saying though it will largely be dependent on how hard Hammer of Light hits.

4 Likes
101

Things that say “Templar” to me:

  • Bonds of fellowship
  • Unrelenting charger
  • Higher Calling (because of the unrelenting nature of keeping the shake the heavens active)

Nothing else in there makes me go, “ahh yeah that’s a templar”.
It’s not to say I don’t like the effects or spells though.

Small but impactful things that could have been cool

  • Templar’s Will - You’re undeterred in your pursuit of justice, you cannot be displaced or pushed back while X is active. (While shake the heaven is active maybe? )
  • Martial prowess - Combining your combat forms results in building momentum for your next spender. After you’ve used all you basic builders at least once, your next spender does X.
6 Likes
102

I was just thinking that it is a shame that the talent in the herald of the sun “aurora” would had been very useful in this tree, too bad it’s in the other tree lol. For hammer of the light that is.

Things like that is what this tree sorely need.

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