Somehow when I first glanced at Templar yesterday, I completely missed Bonds of Fellowship. I think I was too wrapped up in Unrelenting Charger and was just thinking of ways to creatively improve upon that talent.
But nonetheless, Bonds of Fellowship is a banger of an idea! One of the best in the tree and does indeed hit the theme of Templar.
You randomly also just gave me this idea from mentioning this. Would it be too much or outrageous to add in 1 PvP Talent for each Hero Spec?
So for example if you are a Ret Paladin in PvP, selecting Templar gives you access to itâs optional PvP talent. This would be Unbreakable Will from our Artifact Weapon in Legion. This ability auto breaks your first long CC that was applied to you.
Just food for thought and take that concept with a grain of salt!
Regardless of an idea like that, I do think those two ideas you suggested are exactly a major piece of what is missing from Templar. We need a bit more focus on the âstop at nothingâ piece of the class fantasy.
I would even settle for something like Unrelenting Charger automatically also triggers Emancipate on you and your allies.
I would love to ask you directly too if you are interested, what are your thoughts on swapping over to swords from hammers as the Templar theme?
I really tried to lay out some of the logic and meaning behind why that decision makes sense and builds out a better class fantasy. I just havenât see you say too much on that area!
i mean i dont see why people dislike pvp modifiers to balance hero trees? pvp modifiers is the reason why pve doesnt suffer from pvp and vice versa. also can we please not give legitimacy to âi dont want to spec wake of ashesâ takes? i honestly perfer the templar name takes more than those at this point. even if the hero fantasy matches historical and in game lore. the sword stuff being made by modern media
I completely agree. These types of mechanics are great for the health of the game.
I also agree here too. Wake of Ashes is core to a Retribution Paladin and really has been since Legion. No Rets out there are going to realistically play without it. Itâs also arguably the strongest and most fun ability to press in our kit.
With that said, I do still sympathize with players who are pointing out that both of our Hero Spec trees for Ret are going to revolve around augmenting Wake of Ashes. It doesnât personally bother me as much as I thought it would, but I can understand the feeling of lacking some uniqueness.
The way Wake of Ashes is augmented through Herald and Templar are completely different so it lands with me. I still think Wake of Ashes is a bit strange to correlate with âTemplarâ Paladin, but if our class fantasy archetype is swapped to swords, it will work!
It makes too much logical sense to grant us sword animations instead since Lightâs Guidance is stemming from Wake of Ashes.
Well thatâs awesome. I wasnât sure how you would feel!
Both templars watch and for whom the bell toll should not be so restrictive.
Like it should be âhitting 4 or more targetsâ. Because in pvp you will almost never get a solo woa or divine toll with the abundance of pets and summons and fighting melee cleaves. Both talents feel too restrictive with the damage reductions. Seeing as hero talents cant be skipped it feels like value lost. And that is a theme across the entire tree. Lots of things feel like they will get half value. Will explain later when I get hime
This talent is meh at best but my big concern is it jeeps widening the power divide between templqr strikes and crusading strikes. I am asuming it works with both and that alone just further pushes crusading strikes to be always the pick. I had hoped you fixed the talent node and made it a lot more competitive. If hero soecs will interact with spec talents they should be looked at because it just disolves any any chance of TS being used at all
I canât wait to see more evolution on these specs. You bring up a good point though with Templar Strikes. You would think that the Hero Spec Templar, would you know, really impact your want/need to choose Templar Strikes over Crusading Strikes.
And speaking of Templar Strikes⌠This again, is a sword ability icon! Further logic that Templar should be a Sword-themed class fantasy
i dont, cause your gonna be using wake of ashes anyways so it means nothing overal. if anything having both specs using wake means its more inclusive for everyone. so appealing to people who legit dont awnt to play the spec with its own engine to function shouldnt be a focus of ANYONE on this thread.
as for the templar strikes thing? it was doomed the moment they introduced crusading strikes. auto attack talents will always win out for majority of reasons. the fact its 3% behind however is a godsend
Me and my buddies were talking about this last night, lol.
With a sword, you usually want to âSlash all targets in front of you.â
I think Templar Strike and Templar Slash make a good case for this being a âSword of Lightâ for Ret, but ultimately this fell back into the issue of Templar Strikes and Wake of Ashes feeling more radiant than Holystrike.
With how the concept of Hammer of the Light functions. With a Hammer its more likely to âSlam downâ on a target or targeted area to do AoE damage or an AoE effect.
This fits the theme of a Prot Paladin more.
Given the history of Paladins and things being Hammers, and this being connected to Prot, it felt like that had a more solidifying reason to be a Hammer. (majority wins) =/
But branching off that, one of the things we thought was odd, was for a Hammer crashing down on a target(s), there was no lingering ground effect of like Consecration, shattered ground or a spiral of hammers.
It felt very absent of substance for whatever a âTemplarâ is or should be, and given Protâs connection to a Shield, more than their mainhand, the Templar Tree feels very shallow for Prot.
Whatever your feelings for a 2h+Shield is for WoW, is besides the point, without that visual of having such a impactful characteristic to your character the fantasy of this spell feels very weak for Prot Paladins.
i do wnat to point out that final verdict used to be called templars verdict for the longest time and it actively was a hammer animation
i feel like yall are confusing diablo3 crusader for templars irl and to much focus on irl templars kinda completely breaks paladin fantasy in general. since alot of them used bows and arrows
I wonder if for the AOE component for Retribution, if Empyrean Swords could instead animate something more like a Divine Storm in animation. That could help aid the idea of AOE Swords.
This is where I do need to play Protection more. I just of course only PVP and tank specs are not as interesting there. But I very well am going to try running some content later on it in both PvE and PvP.
Off the top of my head, I revert back to Legion and our class artifact weapons. I know that Truthguard for Protection was a shield and sword. So itâs not outside of the fantasy. Plus, didnât Truthguard give Protection Paladins Eye of Tyr? So this would be an instance of Templar augmenting both of our abilities from our Legion artifacts that were both swords.
I think it could be useful to go back to these quotes from Blizzard.
We have several goals for what it feels like to play World of Warcraft with Hero Talents.
We like to say on the team that our goal for Hero Talents gameplay is for them to make you âwhat you are, but more.â
You should feel like youâre playing your spec with a twist or a boost
Again I would view Paladins and Templars a bit like thisâŚ
Paladins are the standard and the class icon is a hammer. Hammers represent all Paladins specs very well. This is further verified by Holyâs legion artifact weapon, The Silver Hand which was also a mace.
A Templar should feel what we are but more. A general Paladin might function more bluntly in combat, so a mace or hammer if you will. But a Templar should be more practiced and showcase higher expertise in battlefield prowess. Swords would accomplish representing a large part of that iconic theme.
If we are playing Templar as a boost or twist, it makes sense again that we would begin to specialize on Swords for a theme. Hammer is broad and general. Remember, we started this game with abilities like Hammer of Wrath and Hammer of Justice. Abilities like Wake of Ashes, Crusader Strike, Blade of Justice and Divine Storm came later. And these are all sword abilities!
This is the only point that is completely valid for hammers in my opinion. But for me, itâs just that every other instance of Templar is referenced with swords in Wow. Templar Strikes for example and now Wake of Ashes which kicks off our Hero Spec.
Exactly, I mean you can make a case very easily with two simple words âThe Ashbringer.â
And considering that this plays off Wake of Ashes, iconically tied to the Ashbringer, I can see where it makes sense. But I think thatâs the flaw in the fantasy and why a good amount of feedback is failing to see what makes this âfeel like a Templar.â
Itâs that mix of fantasies with nothing bridging the gap, which is a lot more apparent if you look at this tree as a whole through the eyes of a Prot Paladin instead of Ret.
My friend said he sure as heck wasnât going to play a Lightsmith, but Templar didnât seem anything special either, so ÂŻ\ _ (ă)_/ÂŻ
There has to be something to bridge the gap better between Ret and Prot.
So in general topic. I was thinking would lightâs hammer trigger empyrean ret talents? The one that normally activates after you use final/templer/justicars?
