That’s the one! There’s an animated version of it too that does a cute little swoop around. Unfortunately again, I can’t post it. :[
1 Like
I personally really like Scalecommander so far. Over all it looks fun to me.
1 Like
As a dev main not sure this is the right path. Mass Disintegration sounds fun but the rest looks pretty bland with nothing new or innovative. Definetly not a fan of bombardment, however I like the theme of volcanic damage. We definetly need MORE RANGE not only tunning.
6 Likes
I wonder exactly what Maneuverability means by “Deep Breath and Breath of Eons can now be steered in your desired direction.” Does this make them less annoying/finnicky?
I love Mass Disintegrate. And compared to most of the other trees we’ve seen so far, this has a much more noticeable effect on the rotation.
Under current conditions, the Deep Breath stuff seems weak, but I’m fine with it thematically/rotationally, as long as it is a) more usable, and b) buffed so that it feels better to press as a rotationional ability.
The duration of Melt Armor seems too short, or maybe it can be extended with Empowered abilities? This seems like it conflicts with Mass Disintegrate which requires weaving Empowered Spells with Disintegrates, yet with Melt Armor you would want to use as much essence as possible for those 12 seconds, either forcing you to Deep Breath during Dragonrage or lose out on some essence abilities while you are weaving empowered abilities in order to extend Dragonrage.
For Aug, the CDR on Breath could end up being awkward. If bombardments result in a 1-min CD during consistent combat, that would be fine for bosses, but with bad RNG, or if the proc rate isn’t right, for out of combat time between pulls, it will cause Breath of Eons to desync from other class’s 2-min CDs.
a deep breath we can control that can probably go down to around a 40 second cooldown. Even if it ends up not being insanely good, it actually sounds like a lot of fun lol.
It’s a controversial opinion, but I feel like just a bit of extra fun from the hero talents is all I really want. Not something that fundamentally changes how an entire spec plays.
Personally I thought Scalecommander was going to focus on our blue spells and Ruby Adept on our red spells. So having Scalecommander focus on the black spells like deep breath came out of no where. It could’ve been an improved Eternity Surge (Glittering Surge) or improved Asure Strike (Asure Wave) that replaces living flame. Basically blue spell themed. Now I’m confused as to what Scalecommander is trying to be.
2 Likes
I don’t know, seems to me Scalecommander is the “I have about 0 f— to give and then I started blasting” - the spec
2 Likes
The Deep Breath stuff actually might work well with the talents I mentioned earlier, 10 seconds of 1 essence off spenders means you’d be able to spend them even while outside of Dragonrage to make the most of the 12 seconds of Melt Armor.
As for the CDR and Aug, Aug already has to hold breath because if they touch any of the Time Skip talents would result in Breath desyncing from 2min CDs for the cost of higher EM uptime.
Hey there,
Been a while since I’ve picked up the evoker. Played all of beta and taught many folks the secret tidbits of devastation while doing many fun duels and meeting people during that time. However it was pretty blatant and still is unfortunately with recent testing that devastation is still lacking. Just want to provide insight again to how we can improve our new class that ultimately lead me to lose interest in dragonflight.
-
Survivability. Now I already know how this subject is gonna go. But let’s not kid ourselves here. Dev needs something more. And whether that be giving blistering scales across all specs for now then so be it. It is clear that this is an issue since beta to this point now.
-
Range. I know the developers of this class were proud to try something different and that is by all means welcomed. However it is clear now through trial and error that mid range caster isn’t cutting it so much. Unless you’re willing to either have more charges of hover or have certain spells and empowered spells to be cast while moving as baseline.
-
Deep breath. Man this should be the coolest ability to press and the most rewarding spell to press and it really shows that no one wants to even look at it for the simple facts that it’s clunky, it’s low damage output reward especially for single target, and makes you vulnerable. You may fly into a bad spot or you simply can’t use your damage mitigation on a already paper thin class. My suggestion is to have damage mitigation built into it as priest with ultimate penitance. Not only that but the evoker talent recall allow the evoker to upon recasting deep breath within the next 5 seconds to deep breath back to the starting location upon initial Activation. This would solve damage rewards. Survivability. Cc. And just make it worth the press.
-
Talent tree audit. Dev specifically needs a talent tree audit we need to sit down and figure out what is necessary at all times or where can we best put talents in the talent tree to make builds have more variety or be able to choose the things you really want and need. I find myself having way more builds for every little situation on Dev then what there should need to be. It just needs better flow. Evoker talent tree is almost there but should have some attention to it.
-
Another ability. Dev and Aug especially lack something. It’s just lacking something. We all know it. It’s been the elephant in the room since day one. Whether that be another build or spender spell or more survivability toolkit. Or all the above. It’s just missing something. Something that I would suggest for this is to build upon the rescue spell. Let there be a talent called Self Rescue. You will be able to fly to a designated point every one minute using rescue and benefit from twin guardian for 15 seconds. Solves cornering issues in a pinch and survivability.
-
Last but certainly not least CC. We need instant CC if we’re going to continue down this road with poor survivability. Whether that be something like dragon breath from mage or just something to get the zug zug away or to survive a little longer against ranged or secure a kill from the healer.
I bring you this bit of feedback in hopes to make this class to be as good as we have always wanted it to be. Just some ideas from another angle and I hope you consider it.
Regards,
Ban
4 Likes
Feedback from a Devastation perspective.
General:
- Mass Disintegrate is super cool from a fantasy and gameplay perspective, very excited for that.
- I’m assuming Mass Disintegrate will be a buff for a short duration for next time we cast Disintegrate. Can Mass Disintegrate please stack in cases where we want/need to cast 2x empower spells before casting Mass Disintegrate? If the duration of the buff could last a while, like maybe 20-30 sec, that would be good in case we need to hold Mass Disintegrate for the next pack if the current pack is super low HP where it would be wasted.
- Bombardments is interesting and has potential to be good particularly with the other interacting talents, it just depends entirely on the % proc chance.
- As Bombardments marks the primary target for 10 sec, it requires the target to be alive for a min of 10 sec to maximise CDR from Wingleader (or longer if taking Extended Battle). I’m a little worried for M+ or content where targets might not live for that long, Bombardments marks them but they die too quickly so Bombardments and all interacting talents are wasted. If a mob is on low HP it might feel awkward to intentionally not target the focus mob for Mass Disintegrate if it might waste Bombardments.
- Might of the Black Dragonflight is a lazy, boring talent. All it does is buff Deep Breath slightly and add no other interaction with the gameplay. Just bake in this +10% damage into Deep Breath, or add it to another talent, and then create a brand new hero talent for this slot.
- Can we get more confirmation on what happens to Unrelenting Siege when we exit combat? Does the buff just immediately clear or does it slowly drop stacks? I just don’t want a situation where we have to sit in combat with training dummies or critters just to keep this active or reach max stacks before entering a boss fight.
Maneuverability:
- If the targeting reticule is completely removed by this and we can just cast Deep Breath in a cone in front of us and choose to move wherever we want, or choose not even move at all so we can just blast it all in one spot without having to move, then that has the chance to be interesting and less frustrating to use.
- If the targeting reticule remains where Deep Breath is just going to be the same like it does now but with the ability to just turn slightly like dragonriding, then this is not a fun and engaging capstone at all. Deep Breath in general is not a fun ability to use cause of the targeting reticule and how it struggles to work properly on bumpy terrain.
- If the targeting reticule remains but we can move and turn instantly in any direction like how we move our characters, then Deep Breath is going to be unbelievably frustrating to play. I don’t want to have to feel like i’m steering a wheel and flick my mouse back and forth multiple times to continuously hit the same mob just to stay in the same spot to maximise damage on a static location.
- I don’t mind this talent in general, but it’s not worthy of being a capstone and should really just be a choice node or the steering of Deep Breath could even really be baseline. Putting this talent in the place of Might of the Black Dragonflight would be fine imo.
Overall:
- I like the concepts of Mass Disintegrate and Bombardments, so I think it’s heading in the right direction.
- I am not sold on the focus on Deep Breath for this tree as the spell is not fun to use in general and it will cause Devastation to pick up a couple of spec talents that it generally never takes. With the amount of Deep Breaths we could cast with this first concept tree, I’d want a something that reduces damage taken while Deep Breath is active for Devastation as it’s super frustrating to clip ground effects that cannot be avoided and have no way to mitigate them while flying in the air.
- Manoeuvrability should be replaced with a different capstone.
5 Likes
I had a fairly positive reaction to this. If breath is going to be a good spell this seems like a good way to enhance it. As for Eons CDR, god I didn’t even think of that, you’re right. I don’t think Bombardment tab-targeting will be as bad as you think. You have two Empower abilities which means at most two mobs that need to have bombardment on them. It would get more annoying with Extended Battle and trying to tab between the two to keep both bombardments up, but maybe it’s more worth it to put two out and then just boost one as much as you can. And that’s assuming you don’t take Diverted Power instead. What I’m more worried about is staggering your Empower spells in single target. Let’s say your Dev. You pop Dragonrage and Eternity Surge to proc your first Bombardment. Do you then hold off on Fire Breath for 10 seconds (more with Exteneded Battle) while your first Bombardment expires? How does that affect your Dragonrage extension? I think you’re also right that Pyre is just gone, and it was barely there to begin with.
Ok but you seem to be forgetting that Scalecommander is shared with Augh. What blue spells does Aug have? Having said that, “Might of the Black Dragonflight” is absolutely ridiculous for Dev.
Dev maybe lacks a bit but Aug? Hell no. The thing that everyone knows about Aug is that they have too much. As for:
There’s already a spell that let’s you fly to a point, and it has 30s cooldown, and it has two charges. It’s called Hover.
You have Tail Swipe and Wing Buffet baseline. Permanent chill is a healthy slow that everyone picks up by default, you have MULTIPLE movement abilities and Dev isn’t terrible at surviving hits while Aug is one of the most unkillable specs in the game. What are you actually talking about?! Edit: and Landslide! I forgot about Landslide. Most everyone does because Evoker has so much CC/movement they hardly need it.
Alright time for my own thoughts finally. My initial thoughts were that it looks fun and has that minimal gameplay change I’m looking for. There’s two things I would change.
Wingleader: Dragonrage needs to be added to the cooldown reduction. Unless the CDR gets breath down to 1 min, you’ll probably just hold it to line up with Dragonrage, making the CDR useless.
Hardened Scales/Menacing Presence: This is a fake choice. Outside of PvP, menacing presence will be quite niche. I think it would be a competitive choice if they changed it to maybe 10%, but made it so affected enemies dealt 10% less damage. Not just less damage to you .
Finally, while I think some of you have a genuine reticence for Deep Breath, it sounds like a lot of you hate it for what it is now (fair) and are somehow transferring those feelings to what it could be (unfair).
Scale commander is good. But please add mass pyre so disintegrate cleave doesn’t just make pyre completely irrelevant in AOE too.
Also, make mass stack up twice. Instead of just once.
My biggest concern with any of these hero specs is that tier set design, unless re-imagined, always heavily favors one specific build. If our tier set (god help us) were to specifically be pushing deep breath usage, now chronowarden has potentially died for a tier.
There’s a world where there are multiple bonuses depending on your hero talent capstone, but I just have little faith that Blizz will put the effort into making that work.
Admittedly I did not connect that bombardment / mass disintegrate was tied to empowered spells so yeah, I agree tab targeting bombardment debuffs will be that bad at all.
Your comment on delaying empowered spells is my new fear.
Some of the worst feelings in wow are overcapping on resources and wasting CDR / cooldowns, and I fear that outside of Dragon’s Rage, you will absolutely be sitting on available empower spells just to maximize bombardment.
The only way I can see solving this is that you can fully pandemic it and bombardment charges on you stack so you can do Fire Breath → Eternity Surge → (Mass) Disintegrate → (Mass) Disintegrate and get 20s of bombardment in ST.
If that’s not the case, this needs to be reworked.
2 Likes
They should do this anyway.
Both cds have 30 seconds, there is no reason why you would want to separate them from a design prospective.
They have the same cdr, same cd, just fix pandemic and add 2 stacks of mass disintegrate.
I would also add mass pyre, because i can see pyre becoming pretty much irrelevant for scalecommander.
And if the idea if to have scalecommander for disintegrate and ruby aspect for pyre, then there are significant issues with that.
Scalecommander is more focused on Disintegrate for Aoe which is fine, Pyre isn’t replaced completely. You just use Disintegrate after each empowered spells which turns into Mass Disintegrate during Aoe twice and then go back to using Pyre if the targets are still alive. Mass disintegrate is fine, it’s the whole point of Scalecommander. That and Deep Breath now. Not sure when Deep Breath will be used, we will all have to figure that out via the numbers and potentials talent changes. My biggest concern now is how well Deep Breath turns. How well it turns can make or break this tree. Basically if you can do donuts this tree is the best thing in the world, but if you can barely turn this tree is going to be rough. Simply because of donuts fixes pathing issues, barely turning means your going to hit extra mobs or run into death mechanics.
All I’m asking for is please let us actually obtain the title that comes with these hero talent trees, if our lizards are gonna be scalecommanders let them actually be NAMED Scalecommanders!
2 Likes
From Devastation Pov
Mass disintegrate and the middle talents
Right off the bat aoe disintegrate at pure face value sounds awesome. It’s going to look and feel cool.
I do have some concerns on how we trigger the ability to Mass disintegrate however. As it is written right now we gain the ability to mass disintegrate after casting an empower. Now does this have the ability to stack? Right now dev fairly commonly casts both of its empowers back to back, changing from a back to back playstyle to something more akin to this: empower → Mass D → empower → Mass D definitely has some negative feelings attached to it. For one you lose out on all of the CDR on the second empower from that first Mass D. Compared to if it stacked and we could go empower → empower → Mass D → Mass D where both empowers are going to benefit from all of the CDR generated by Causality of the disintegrates.
It gets even more clunky when you move further down the tree and look at bombardments. Is this ability going to stack/extend duration or just refresh to 10 seconds? Just thinking about how current Dragonrage works, you enter DRage, and immediately want to send both empowers for the extension from Animosity. But with bombardments I am going to want to keep that debuff up no? Leaving me to go Drage → Firebreath → do whatever for 10 secs → Eternity surge. This way I get 20 secs of bombardments instead of what I imagine would be how its currently implemented of 10 secs refreshed back to 10 secs on the second empower cast. This goes so drastically the playstyle of dev. You lose so much cdr on that second empower, potentially losing out on entire dragonrage extensions just to play around this new bombardments talent? It just feels so clunky. Its even worse when you consider the “Extended Battle” talent that extends bombardments even further, asking you to delay that second empower further. I think this just goes so against the current playstyle of dev that I hope you consider if its not already implemented this way, that bombardments is entirely additive, or even maybe stacks. Just anything to keep us away from holding empowers for buffs/debuffs.
Deepbreath Talents
Namely talking about the following here:
Might of the Black Dragonflight
Melt Amour
Wingleader
Maneuverability
So right off the bat, Might of the black dragonflight sucks, its boring, and does practicaly nothing for dev, and if you consider Aug without its current tier set, Aug only has like 15%ish of its damage being from black spells (Eruption, Upheaval). Id much rather see the 10% just get baked into Deep Breath, and something new put in this place all together. This super screams as filler boring garbage.
Now for Melt Armor and Wingleader. These seem super anti synergistic. With Deep Breath being a base 2 min CD and Dragonrage also being base 2 mins it screams that we should be pairing Drage with deep breath now where inside Drage we will be casting almost primarily disintegrate. But then you go and add CDR to it with wingleader. Unless by some miracle the proc rate on bombardments is high enough that we can get 60 secs of CDR on deep breath to be able to cast it between Drages this CDR is completely pointless. We’re just going to hold it for the next Drage making all of this CDR pointless and a dead talent. Now we havent seen the proc chance or rate on bombardments so Ill reserve judgement here, but this is a major concern for me.
And just a small note on Maneuverability, if the volcanic damage works with our mastery this just further re-enforces what I just said of pairing it with Drage.
Right hand side of the tree
Onslaught - Neat I guess for m+ if you actually leave combat, but ask rogues how they feel about chain pulling and not being able to restealth. Also basically a nothing burger in ST, likely actually times out before we would even cast a living flame in the opener
Unrelenting Siege - Again this seems opposite of our kit? Our whole deal with our mastery is we do more damage up front. This is trying to remedy the longer the fight goes I guess? Just seems so opposite of what Dev is.
From an Aug PoV
Mass eruption - Not nearly as cool as Mass disintegrate since the visual on eruption isnt nearly as obvious, but also doesnt come with nearly as many perks as Mass D. Disintigrate gives empower CDR to two empowers, Scintillation procs, and faster firebreath ticking. In comparison eruption gives up CDR to one empower, and EM extension. We already live in a world where EM uptime is nearing 90%. Uptime on Ebon might is not the problem here. I’d love to see the power level between the two normalized a bit or give Aug some more benefits for casting eruption.
Pretty well everything I said about bombardments for Dev applies the same for aug. Right now we cast both empowers back to back to get out shifting sands buffs to our allies during our breath windows. I imagine shifting sands will probably be more damage than bombardments in that window so if the duration doesnt increase or stack, and only refreshes you are asking us to effectively throw out 8 secs of bombardments fairly frequently
CDR on Breath of Eons from wingleader, and other sources
Please stop trying to add CDR to Breath of Eons. Our class tree is littered with it, Chronomancer is littered with it and now Scalecommander has it. Unless you are going to go bananas with the CDR such that casting Breath of eons on CD becomes the way, we are simply going to hold this button until our buff targets are hitting their CDs. These CDR affects are decent for all of our rotational abilities sure, but they continue to just feel so wasted on our Major CD, when many other classes have no CDR on their CDs and we have to wait for them anyways.
I’m curious to see if onyx legacy/imminent destruction would be worth with this hero tree.
It potentially would be, as would overlord in aug, assuming that turns each separate eruption into a mass eruption.
I think people are undervaluing this tree for aug considering the potential EM uptime from the extra eruptions (assuming it behaves how I think it should).