So after sleeping on it I realized.
They couldn’t even get what horseman should do what correct, Why is Mograine casting Death and Decay instead of having Whitemane cast Consecration since it was her special ability as a follower in Legion?
3 Likes
Why do this? Just make it say “Cleaving Strikes now makes Obliterate hit up to 2 additional targets”. It shouldnt exist, but making it basically 100% uptime through RW and filling in gaps with DnD is just taking the long way around of just saying “just make Obliterate cleave all the time”.
Why have this when you have cleaving strikes going through RW for a high uptime due to having high uptime with RW?
Frost needs to get away from Obliterate, not reinforce it doing everything under the sun. Might as well make it eat some RP every time it does damage.
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I wish all of the other trees were as thematically flavorful as Rider is.
Same. I know they would have to nerf it by a lot indoors, but I don’t even care. Being on your deathcharger all the time is probably the coolest thing you could do in this game.
7 Likes
Rider of the Apocalypse has the best expression of theme for any hero talent tree so far. It’s absolutely fantastic and I’m looking forward to it.
Good to see the dev-note around Defile / Death and Decay, while those are being evaluated. Can the art team make Defile less of a visual disaster it blocks a ton of visual effects and it’s position is ‘unknown’ to the tank which makes it extra ‘fun’.
A bit of clarification would be great, and one concern on balancing between the Frost and Unholy spec.
Will “On a Paler Horse” allow you to fight while mounted outside? It seems that would be the case, but it’s not explicitly stated.
With the current sate of the Frost and Unholy tree - the capstone abilities that will trigger Apocalypse Now are pretty divergent in frequency and consistency. Frost will have a fixed cooldown available up to twice as often to bring the four horsemen out for the extended 20 second duration. (Frostwyrm’s fury at 3:00 or 1:30 with Absolute Zero.) Unholy has a long 8 minute Army of the dead which is usually taken with a variable cooldown reduction that result in a ~3 minute army window, but it does require near full uptime in a raid fight and is less consistent in most M+ dungeons.
Will the variation in how often each spec can trigger Apocalypse Now (with Frost being able to do so twice as often) result in balance adjustments either in the spec tree abilities (fixed CD AOTD for example) and/or impactful balance between the capstone hero talent when used due to the 2 to 1 ratio of uptime?
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Oh yeah. I mean, barring my questions and some specific concerns on function, if this tree went live how it is I wouldn’t be mad at all. Thats just one of the areas I could see improvement on if they choose yknow?
It’s going to look so stupid with multiple Mograines showing up if there is more than one Rider DK in a group.
Not to mention how heavy RNG this looks. Sucks because the mounted combat talents look great.
Why do Retail specs always have to come with weird design baggage?
3 Likes
I bet they do that quest thing when there’s more than one of the same follower npc in the world . Like when you are with thrall in the maw and you see someone else they are just being following by like a frost wolf shaman. So you and another rider dk summon whitemane, one will be named horseman of famine or some nonsense.
3 Likes
I think it’d be really cool if Rider DKs were always on their mount. It doesn’t have to give a speed boost indoors, but I’d rather avoid the Paladin issue of a horse appearing under you and vanishing a few seconds later in favor of actual mounted combat if that’s possible.
5 Likes
You probably won’t be able to see other DK’s riders unless your settings are really high.
Even so, it is likely to show you generic NPC name and model for other DKs, its really not a big deal nor unprecedented. Of all the possible issues this ain’t one.
3 Likes
My inputs are mainly from an Unholy DK perspective, but I do know Frost enough to comment whenever necessary.
Rider’s Champion: Spending Runes has a chance to call forth the aid of a Horseman for 10 seconds.
- Mograine: Casts Death and Decay at his location that follows his position.
- Whitemane: Casts Undeath on your target dealing Shadowfrost damage per stack every 3 seconds for 24 seconds. Each time Undeath deals damage it gains a stack. Cannot be Refreshed.
- Trollbane: Casts Chains of Ice on your target slowing their movement speed by 70% and increasing the damage they take from you by 5% for 8 seconds.
- Nazgrim: While Nazgrim is active you gain Apocalyptic Conquest, increasing your Strength by 5%.
Curious to hear what the intended rate for them spawning would be. Assuming they cycle. Thematically it’s pretty awesome. I am hoping they come out frequently. For example, in a mythic dungeon trash pull, seeing at least 2 just from regular spawns.
Choice Node: On a Paler Horse & Death Charge
- On a Paler Horse: While outdoors you are able to mount your Acherus Deathcharger in combat.
I am going to assume this means outdoors in non-instanced content. Some people interpret it as whenever you can mount. Clarification would be nice.
- Death Charge: Call upon your Death Charger to break free of movement impairment effects. For 10 seconds. While upon your Death Charger your movement speed is increased by 100%, you cannot be slowed, and you are immune to forced movement effects and knockbacks.
The theme on both of these is incredible. I am very happy with these.
Mograine’s Might: Your damage is increased by 5% and you gain the benefits of your Death and Decay while inside Mograine’s Death and Decay .
As requested, I am ignoring the DnD implications. I will say, regardless of what the changes are, I think this effect should be baseline with Mograine. This just feels like a throwaway node. The others feel additive while this one feels like it’s just making Mograine actually do something.
Choice Node: Horsemen’s Aid & Pact of the Apocalypse
- Horsemen’s Aid: While at your aid, the Horsemen will occasionally cast Anti-Magic Shell on you and themselves at 80% effectiveness.
- Pact of the Apocalypse: When you take damage 5% of the damage is redirected to each active horseman.
If I’m being honest, this seems very broken. I won’t complain! But I would expect to see numerical changes.
Whitemane’s Famine: When your diseases deal damage to an enemy affected by Undeath it gains another stack. Additionally, when Undeath deals damage, it infects another nearby enemy.
INCREDIBLE. Love the disease aspect of this. Im hoping visually, you can see the disease proliferate. That would be amazing.
Nazgrim’s Conquest: If an enemy dies while Nazgrim is active, the strength of Apocalyptic Conquest is increased by 3%. Additionally, each Rune you spend increases its value by 1%.
This one’s a bit weird. Thematically It makes sense, however, a buff when mobs are dying is a little counterintuitive. A dungeon pack dies and hey you have this big buff, but the mobs are dead. The way you gain more strength should probably change.
Trollbane’s Icy Fury: When you Obliterate or Scourge Strike a target affected by Trollbane’s Chains of Ice , it shatters dealing Shadowfrost damage to nearby enemies and slows them by 40% for 4 seconds.
It’s clear that some nodes in a hero talent tree is to give some love to PvP. In this case I think it works really well! It adds some interesting burst to Chain of Ice
my BIG question: If you talent into Proliferating Chill, will Trollbane’s Chains of Ice hit an additional target?
Hungering Thirst: The damage of your diseases, Frost Strike , and Death Coil are increased by 15%.
This feels like filler. I would much prefer something that would augment what the hero talents are doing, not just more damage. Random idea:
“When you summon a Horseman, you have a 25% chance to summon another Horseman”
The overall damage value could be equal to what the current talent is, but it FEELS better.
Choice Node: Fury of the Horsemen and A Feast of Souls
- Fury of the Horsemen: Every 50 Runic Power you spend extends the duration of the Horsemen’s aid in combat by 1 second, up to 5 seconds.
- A Feast of Souls: While you have 2 or more Horsemen aiding you, your Runic Power spending abilities deal 20% increased damage and have 10% chance to refund a Rune.
A chance to refund a rune feels a bit off when Unholy tends to be swimming in resources. Frost benefits a bit more from it though.
Fury of the Horseman is much more fun IMO. Sad it has to be a choice node.
Mawsworn Menace: The cooldown of your Horn of Winter and Unholy Blight is reduced by 15 seconds and Death and Decay is reduced by 10 seconds.
I’m making this comment, while keeping in mind that the Unholy spec tree could be changing for TWW.
With our current talents, this would force you to take Unholy Blight, when we aren’t taking it in single target. This node makes way more sense if Unholy Blight becomes a talent we just always pick up.
Apocalypse Now: Army of the Dead and Frostwyrm’s Fury call upon all 4 Horsemen to aid you for 20 seconds.
Again, saying this while understanding talents could be changed come TWW.
For Unholy this makes sense, for Frost it would force Frostwyrm Fury as well as the 50% CD reduction node. If it becomes freer to grab then its fine, but it’s a point of concern assuming frost talents don’t change.
Overall, I really enjoy the theme of this tree! There is some room for more direct gameplay alterations. For example, something that can be added onto the captstone:
“Army of the Dead (Unholy) and Frostwyrms Fury (Frost) transforms into ‘Fury of the Riders.’ You and your horseman unleash a coordinated strike at your target. 1 charge. Generate 50 Runic Power”
That would add more direct gameplay, look insanely cool, and tie well into both Frost and Unholy’s kits.
Thank you for reading!
2 Likes
So this tree is about random minion spam spawning in trash packs and butt pulling? I recall going through this scenario with the Unholy artifact in Legion, with the Shambler spawn. Great. Just…great.
I’m more interested in the DND and Cleaving Strikes plans.
2 Likes
Nazgrims Conquest would be a dead talent in PvP and some boss fights. Maybe retool it for when your ghouls/ minions die you get the strength bonus.
Also, can we bring Raise Abom and make it choice node with Army of the Dead for PvP? An 8 minute cooldown compared to the 1.5 min cd for raise about is much more inline with todays game. you probably get to use it once in a match. will also give us more use of Apocalypse Now
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I really dont like how Unholy just got out of a CD desync rut and we’re getting a talent that desyncs a CD.
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The fact Frost can take advantage of Apocalypse Now way more often than Unholy due to Frostwyrm’s Fury being on a much shorter cooldown seems very unfair.
May I suggest tying Apocalypse Now to perhaps Unholy Assault? Or if it HAS to be tied to a CD like Army of the Dead, put Raise Abomination as a choice node with Army. That way Unholy damage will be much more attractive and approachable in M+ while still making Army a better choice in raid.
1 Like
Would renaming the spec to Ebon Commander make you feel better, little guy? None of this spec harkens back to the Naxx riders. And even if it did, Death Knights are literally scourge champions. THEY use SCOURGE abilities. Not the other way around.
Purely for flavor the player should have mounted combat for the duration of the capstone apocalypse now. So you as death lord lead the horsemen properly.
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Go play Legion.
We The Deathlord RAISE THE FOUR HOPRSEMEN OURSELVES.
This is us literally calling our direct subordinates into battle.
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The lich King commanded it, we just did the dirty work. But does the name actually make you think horse summoner? Rider of the Apoc is after the christian religion with the riders of the apocalypse. Death, War, Famine and Conquest. This doesnt make you feel you are this penultimate bringer of the end of times which the 4 horsemen are.
So how does this hero spec fill the class fantasy that YOU are the rider of apocalypse? Like you are this unknown 5th rider that you would never want to meet on the battlefield? To me its so far from the mark the mark cant be seen.
Its not like the DK is a good class for this system in the first place because we are the thing hero specs are trying to capture.