I do know, was just giving the benefit of the doubt.
“Everyone is wrong but me”
Should take the hint. Tried being nice but naturally, in classic Kelliste fashion, you get angry and write an essay, which I am not reading btw.
1 Like
Sure you were.
Never said this so its just you making stuff up.
That you are disingenuous? Didnt need any hints for that.
Lol, no you werent.
People cant tell the truth about me?
Its a conversation and im not angry lol.
My responses to you hasnt been an essay lol. The responses have been short and to the point with you. You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.
So care to keep lying or what?
Unholy is my fave fantasy in any genre and especially WoW, and this spec on paper, thematically, is pretty cool. Not as cool as being the one unleashing darker powers, but summoning DK champions is pretty thematic.
Gameplay wise it’s going to be very meh outside of trollbane procs, but I’m hoping unholy gets the rework treatment 
I think this is a very underrated comment, I think keep the capstone summoning all 4 horsemen at once, I do like that.
but instead of randomly summoning a horseman I do like the idea they imbue us uniquely. Fury of the Horsemen Could extend the imbue/buff duration instead.
But honestly I’m happy aswell summoning random horsemen to our side, but would also be happy with this imbue suggestion aswell.
3 Likes
The flavor is there, but gameplay wise, pets are a horrible mechanic and only cause headaches down the line. Nearly every class that had a perma pet outside of hunter and warlock, has had it removed for this exact reason, and even those pets have been retooled a million times.
I just want less jank, not more buggy crud to worry about down the line, and powerscaling with pets and summons has always been horrible as well.
3 Likes
I agree pets can be very janky, that’s why I agree with your suggestion, I guess once Alpha releases we will have a better understanding on how the horsemen perform/interact but I’m happy with how it is now (for now, until we see it in action) and your suggestion is a insanely well compromise if all else fails.
1 Like
I am in fact a huge fan of necromancy and undead things so unholy was always my favorite spec. I am not that into summoning named npcs like this, though it’s probably going to be really strong right up until blizzards fundar goes of and they torpedo it.
I do like seeing Necrotic plague come back, and the prospect of how this might change up our Army of the Dead.
1 Like
I am thoroughly unimpressed.
Thematically this is a great tree. It’s got nice call backs to the scant Death Knight lore that exists, and sounds awesome.
Mechanically it’s absolutely awful. Nothing about how this tree functions rewards good gameplay, it’s all passive random procs. The only cool thing about it mechanically is the On A Paler Horse choice node, and that’s only because it’s something Death Knight should have had five expansions ago. And the one that is almost always going to be taken in actual content is literally just Paladin’s Charger but with Death’s Advance stapled to it.
Rider’s Champion
Rider’s Champion is literally just the Legion Frost artifact primary all over again, except worse because you can get totally screwed by it. It’s completely random from spending Runes, and you can’t directly interact with it in any way, and there are very clearly Riders you want more than others for specific content and if you get screwed on which one you get, well rip your DPS I guess.
At bare minimum this needs to be an activated with a way to let you choose what Rider you summon, you don’t even need to have extra buttons for it, you can have existing buttons transform into the various riders once you click the Rider’s Champion button. Perhaps replacing Raise Dead, with other buttons transforming into the specific Riders.
This needs a complete rethink, which means that the entire tree needs a complete rethink. Please rework it.
On A Paler Horse/Death Charge
On A Paler Horse
This is the coolest thing we’ve gotten in years for the class. The outdoors restriction is annoying considering how much content is considered Indoors, but it’s pretty much the only way that it even remotely feels like a choice. This is all under the assumption that attacking doesn’t dismount you if you’ve taken this talent. If it does, well I retract everything I said here and it is instead the most malicious of teases.
Death Chage
This is something we should have gotten years ago, before Paladin even, considering that Warcraft III Death Knight was a mounted hero class and Paladin wasn’t. In fact, this should just be baseline in the class tree and not even a hero talent.
Mograine’s Might
While I can’t comment on it completely without seeing how the devs plan to rework Death and Decay, I will say: Have you not been paying to attention to the forums? Nobody likes DnD cleave. NOBODY. Get rid of it, which means completely reworking this talent. Please rework it.
Horsemen’s Aid/Pact of the Apocalypse
Horsemen’s Aid
….Really? Did we learn absolutely nothing from the Spellwarden fiasco? If it’s to be defensive, you could do something like calling a Horseman reduces the CD of AMS or IBF, but random proc defensives are not fun to play with, or play against and annoying to play around. Please rework it.
Pact of the Apocalypse
This is just Soul Link but simultaneously better and worse. Assuming it works how I think it does. If it works as up to four packets of 5% of damage are redirected to one of each of the Horsemen, then it’s…ok? I guess? I’d rather have just straight up something like 3% DR for each active Horseman. Kinda boring, but at least it’s not Horseman’s Aid.
Whitemane’s Famine
This is just Necrotic Plague, which is something Unholy has been wanting back for forever, and is probably the single most insulting way it could have been implemented. No interaction with it either. C’mon. Give Unholy Necrotic Plague back and change this up. Please rework it.
Nazgrim’s Conquest
Oh god please no. Not another strength maintenance buff. Please god no. And it’s passive too, with absolutely no gameplay change about it. Rework it. No please about it.
Trollbane’s Icy Fury
Yet another passive “Obliterate Hits Harder” ability….guys. Guys come on. You can do better than this. I’ve seen the Ret tree. you can do better. Please rework it.
Hungering Thirst
…Well at least it’s not Obliterate I guess. A bunch of other things you could have done here but points for not making it more plus Obliterate damage I guess. I’d still recommend reworking it.
Fury of the Horsemen/A Feast of Souls
Fury of the Horsemen
If I had active control over the summoning of the Horsemen this would actually be a very cool pick. However I don’t, and thus it’s more mediocre passive slopped on top of the rest of DK’s passives.
A Feast of Souls
…I suppose a good way to try and get people to play Breath over Obliteration. Another talent that drastically benefits from having active control over summoning the Horsemen.
Mawsworn Menace
….Blizzard. Blizz. Class design team. DK team. Guys. The cooldown is not why people don’t pick Horn of Winter. It’s because we’re so swamped with resources that it’s literally pointless to take it. And Unholy Blight is perfectly fine on a 45s CD as it lines up with Unholy’s other cooldowns. Please rework it.
Apocalypse Now
Well that’s one way to try and get people to play FWF I suppose. This really screws over Unholy though, with Army having an eight minute base cooldown.
Ultimately my thoughts on the RotA tree are much the same as my thoughts on the San’lyn tree: It’s a halfassed mess. Thematically it’s fine, great even. Mechanically it feels like the team trying to weasel their way out of reworking Frost and Unholy from the ground up, despite that coming sooner rather than later.
Death Knight as a class needs a return to basics and a complete rework before we start trying to add things on top of it.
7 Likes
Two cents…
Rename Rider’s Champion to something that sounds like an ability.
“Apocalypse Gate”, “Horn of the End”, “Endbringer” (heh), something, and… just base it off Blessing of Summer. DK already copies Paladin’s homework (as it rightly should, lore-wise), why not keep that going?
Instant, 45 sec CD.
Call forth the aid of a Horseman for 10 seconds.
Mograine > Whitemane > Trollbane > Nazgrim
Or, alternative?
Apocalyptic Herald
Casting Horn of Winter (Frost) or Unholy Blight (Unholy) also calls forth the aid of a Horseman for 10 seconds (cycling in the same way, and it tells you which horseman you’ll summon).
And as for the other main complaint I saw regarding these talent trees… Trollbane. Change it to instead be like. “Trollbane casts Horn of Winter, granting you its benefits.” → “Trollbane’s Icy Fury: Your target and enemies around Trollbane are shaken by his clarion call, causing your next Obliterate or Scourge Strike to deal additional Shadowfrost damage to nearby enemies.”
Something to avoid random slows in the middle of an M+, and also give these Heroes a way to get on demand Riders on a cycle, just requiring a bit of pre-planning. Main problem can still be found with Raiding, I.E., waiting for the DK to cycle to the right Horseman to start the encounter with (but if the random chance is also a cycle, you’d get the same thing, but with a training dummy to proc it till your next one is the right one).
Side note, since I feel its worth clarifying, since the talent tree already fails in this regard…
Apocalypse Now (Normal Effect) … Calling a Horseman whose already active extends their duration by 10 sec, and causes them to repeat their arrival effect.
(So you Frostwyrm’s Fury, got all 4, and by random chance, or if the suggestions I offer are used, and you summon them specifically, you summon Whitemane again. Well, your existing Whitemane lasts 10 sec longer, and casts Necrotic Plague again on your current target.)
Random other changes I thought of include…
-
Death Charge replacing Wraith Walk, same cooldown, similar duration, and similar effect.
-
Whitemane’s Famine also causing Necrotic Plague to inherit your talents for Frost Fever/Virulent Plague (and count as those diseases for other talents).
-
Pact of the Apocalypse instead granting an effect from Rune of the Apocalypse while the matching Horseman is active for ALL your ghoul’s attacks.
- Mograine: Death
- Whitemane :Famine
- Nazgrim: War
- Trollbane: Pestilence
You don’t need this Rune active on your weapon for these benefits.
Our runes havent been touched in ages so i think this would be a great opportunity to modernize Rune of Apocalypse and make it just as viable as Fallen Crusader. Mayve Rune of Apocalypse augment the abilites of the four horsemen in a big way. just some cool interaction with them
1 Like
At this point they might as well just make fallen crusader a class passive. It’s been what like 10 years of that being the go to for everything besides dw in certain cases.
3 Likes
Runeforges have to compete with enchants and when enchants are a primary stat proc, the best runeforge is going to be a primary stat proc but slightly better.
Apocalypse Now needs to be tied to Apocalypse. Frost gets it tied to a 1.5 min CD while its tied to a 8min cd from unholy in absurb. And make Superstrain 100% effectiveness.
1 Like
You really shouldnt compare FwF with Absolute Zero and Army + Army of the Damned.
So in reality its a 3m CD for Army and a 1.5m CD. Doesnt mean that you would even take Absolute Zero, and they may just remove it making both options 3m cd’s.
not in pvp…
Blizzard doesnt design for pvp. Its the least popular game mode.
2 Likes
Idk why many people dislike Death and Decay, I personally find it very unique of the class, no other class can hit as many targets for the same amount of damage as DK can.
Personally I think that following Mograine will be quite annoying, I think perhaps they could make DnD follow a target instead, anyway. Just by being able to ride the horse will be a great addition for the class in terms of mobility.
It’s true, they design classes more for M+ since Legion, however there are some talents that seems to be made for PvP, etc. Though it’s obviously not their focus when designing a class. Which is also why many people complain about micro CCs in PvP, for classes are being designed to interrupt tons of mobs in M+, etc. PvE always ruled the game.
first of all a lot of classes can hit multiple targets even harder lol second its because it sucks in pvp it should be bound to remorseless winter
1 Like
Cleaving Strikes being on RW is a bad idea.
2 Likes