Also I think the talent removal of Crusader’s Reprieve is fine since everyone is in the same basket but the range to Rebuke should stay (bake it into Punishment), and the heal portion of Crusader Strike should stay (bake into Seal of the Crusader).
1 Like
I have been testing out a lot of dueling in the Beta. We have received some buffs and more self healing with Sacrosanct Crusade which is within the Templar tree. This is a wonderful addition to Retributions survival. Wonderful talent, please don’t nerf it.
Dueling alot of Dks on the Beta and its safe to say currently they are our biggest counters. But something I notices is their insane amount of self healing. looking at the numbers a single Death Strike on average heals for 1mil, not including amplifiers, which currently dk hp is average 8mil thats 1/8th of their health pool as a melee class. Right now on beta WoG heals for 400k, thats at 20% hp with selfless healer. Flash of light heals for 300k with Lights Celerity every 6 seconds. On this matter thats all I have to say, the numbers speak for themselves. Other classes heal just as much as dks.
Divine Protection is only 10% damage reduction in PvP. When did this happen and why?
Shield Of Vengeance sharing the same node as Aegis of Protection really blows. If they were separate I would shut my mouth and never complain about our defensives or lack of healing again but having to choose between 30% dam reduction vs a 2.2mil shield thats easily broken really blows.
I dont think its goign to be a SUPER big deal but throughout all my time on Beta it is 1000000% not worth pressing WoG or FoL ever in any situation while in PvP. The waste of a GCD instead of pressing a 5min cd isnt worth. My ret currently has 7.3mil HP there is no way 300k is going to move my health bar.
I understand this is Beta and could possibly get some healing buffs but Im just hoping a Dev might stumble upon this and look at the numbers and see how its awkward for a HYBRID class does pretty good damage and no healing at all. At that point Ret is just a dps class with minor utility.
5 Likes
Why would you remove Retribution Aura?
Paladins are a very popular class that can be put in the tank and healer roles, which makes Retribution struggle for a raid spot. Unless we get another legendary weapon and end up overtuned, there is no reason to bring a Ret.
Druids and Monks have a similar problem, though there are far less Monk players and Druids can bring Innervate and play ranged. Melee spots are inherently more competitive.
9 Likes
Welcome to UH and Frost DK bench, we kept it warm for you.
2 Likes
While the raid buff thing is kinda a big deal, right now it also opens up a talent issue as well. Since now our base talent kit now only nets us a relatively useless aura. Would it be feasible to merge them all together or maybe swap position so that way it doesnt feel like such a kick in the pants?
3 Likes
They answered that already.
5 Likes
Wow removing Ret aura kinda sucks honestly.
Like I understand that paladins having two raid buffs rubs people the wrong way but ret is just a much worse spec to bring devo aura than holy is, so why even bring a ret to begin with?
If you’re gonna take away ret aura (a cool class fantasy aura) they should at least give Aura Mastery to Ret so that we can compete with holy.
4 Likes
Nerfed defensives, melee range reduced, Ret Aura gone; what’s next, I wonder?
Hopefully they never rework a spec inside an expansion, make it solid, and then go back on a lot of it because “new expansion, must change things”
3 Likes
No need to bring ret now just holy and prot or just holy by itself.
2 Likes
I agree with the removal of Ret Aura. All three Paladin specs almost being required for a raid was silly. However, you need to spread the love to Ret that the other specs have. Right now Prot has Spellwarding. Holy has Aura Mastery with Devo Aura. Ret has…?
Simply taking away Ret aura while not giving the other utility options kicks Ret out of a raid spot. Ret doesn’t even have an aura now which is the last bit of class fantasy the spec had.
Not only is Ret uniquely weaker than the other two Paladin specs in terms of utility it also does not have access to Lightsmith. If Lightsmith’s utility proves to be useful(it currently is), then that puts Ret even further behind.
8 Likes
Honestly the thing I miss most is the self healing and interrupt range. Plus there is talk of ongoing “disarmament” of defensives so hopefully down the line others will get hit, we just drew the unlucky first straw.
The core spec is still in good shape, it just suffers from the terminal issue its always had in that its other 2 specs are just infinitely more wantable in a raid environment.
2 Likes
I understand where you’re coming from, but I disagree. Aura Mastery shouldn’t be looked at as a “better Devotion Aura.” While it is tied to the paladin’s current aura, and will always be used with Devotion Aura, people aren’t going to kick out a Ret Paladin for a Holy Paladin because the Holy’s Devo Aura is better (it’s not better).
Aura Mastery itself is a raid defensive/healer cooldown. Like Healing Tide Totem or Tranquility. It competes with those abilities.
4 Likes
This was the issue before we got the raid buff. Holy and Protection just do it better. That was the complaint from the start. What incentive to bring a Retribution Paladin when you can have a tank and Devo Aura, or a healer and Devo Aura with Aura Mastery.
2 Likes
While this is true imo, the same ‘intrinsic to the spec’ argument can’t be made for Blessing of Spellwarding.
I think their logic for removing ret aura is actually entirely correct, even if it took me a bit by surprise. It was iconic & the wings pop graphic was cool, but there are solid reasons to bring two pallies already.
However the problem of “why ret instead of a holy + prot combo?” is very real too. Prot isn’t looking great right at this instant but that’s an abnormality rather than the norm.
It was very smart to remove ret aura. But I think the logic used can and should be applied to more classes.
3 Likes
There is literally no reason to bring any paladin other than holy for the raid buff paladins provide because of aura mastery.
There was already little reason to bring ret when prot also brought spellwarding and ret aura.
Now it’s just gonna be holy in every comp.
If they’re gonna play these games with class buffs at least make them equal across all the specs. Give holy and ret spellwarding and give ret and prot aura mastery.
1 Like
Why bring Prot if it’s not the best tank spec and other tank specs would do better?
Why bring Holy if other healers perform better?
I do think there’s something to be said specifically for Blessing of Spellwarding, as that is very unique. But Aura Mastery is not unique, it’s just another raid healer cooldown, and the way it is tied to Devo does not make Holy better to bring than Ret. All that would make Holy better to bring than Ret is if Holy’s performance (in relation to other healers) is better than Ret’s performance (in relation to other dps). imo anyway.
1 Like
If and only if Aura Mastery performs better than other raidwide healer cooldowns. If Holy does not perform (in relation to other healers) better than Ret performs (in relation to other dps) then the ability Aura Mastery has zero (0) bearing on the value of the Devo Aura either of them bring.
2 Likes
If you want devo aura, which you do, you definitely want aura mastery.
Literally it’s why holy is brought to every fight, despite being worse than other healers.
1 Like
I think if you’re undergeared and doing world first mythic raiding, you have a good argument to make here, as Aura Mastery performs very well at very low gear levels. For 99%+ of the playerbase, this is a nonissue. If you’re part of that world first mythic raiding scene, you should already be used to switching to fotm classes every season at this point.
But by selecting a Holy Paladin as a healer, you necessarily are cutting out a healer of some other class, and all the associated abilities of that other class. So you’re losing something no matter what you do.
4 Likes