Feedback: Paladins

In Development The War Within Beta Test
482

Goodbye Ret Aura. We will miss you…
Now we have 2 useless auras and…Devo Aura. Can we go back to having the auras that we did back in WoD? Those were great.

However, the recent changes to Templar Strike and Templar Slash are incredible, a great step forward. Thank you so much!

Could we change Divine Hammers as well? Having it consume Holy Power when you’re constantly trying to build it, doesn’t feel good at all. I’ll have enough to spend and then once the GCD rolls around for me to spend it, Divine Hammer takes a Holy Power away so I can’t use my Holy Power spenders. If we could change it back to the 12 second cd for a 12 sec buff, to work with Sanctify, that would be wonderful.

Judge, Jury, and Executioner - animation wise, it isn’t clear that it’s hitting more than one target. Perhaps having 3 additional “Final Verdict” hammers come down, so that it’s easier to tell? Would look super cool as well.

Still vouching for:

  • Bigger hammers coming down for Hammer of Light
  • A glyph to make Devo Aura permanently pulse (like what Aura Mastery does with Devotion Aura)
  • Unbound Freedom for Holy Paladins (Ret & Prot both have it, why not Holy?)
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483

My guild and others I know that saw the removal of Ret Aura had this reaction: “Only need 1 paladin now.” Hope you buff our damage accordingly, cause it’s pretty difficult to compete with a tank or healer in raid as dps.

If for whatever reason prot/holy becomes meta or even just pretty good, there’s a higher chance the one ret a team might have loses a raid spot.

I’m fine with or without auras. My concern is with having to compete with more than the other dps

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484

But isn’t this something that all dps have to worry about? I know I’ve been reading some complaints from Enhancement Shamans since this last beta patch about losing their unique Windfury buff, since it’s been converted into a normalized raid buff all shamans can provide. How many other dps classes still have unique raid buffs at this point?

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485

I mean that just levels the playing field frankly.

“Only need one” is the default status quo for every class now.

The things from the last few days that bode poorly for ret are that prot’s spellwarding is more attractive (and three of a class is definitely iffy), plus universal windfury totem acts as a relative-to-other-melee nerf for us.

Holy is competition, but probably less so than any of the other classes who have a healing spec… paladin general purpose utility is solid enough that you wouldn’t object to two if the numbers tuning’s right.

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486

The problem now is that it’s not equal across the paladin specs now because holy and prot are significantly better at utility than ret is.

Especially with how strong lightsmith is.

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487

There are only four classes with one DPS spec. Demon Hunter, Monk, Paladin, and Priest. The other classes have multiple DPS specs that give players a choice. Of them we’re the only one without a raid buff now. DH have chaos brand, monks have mystic touch, and priests have PI and PW: Fortitude.

The much larger issue is the class tree, in particular the top of it. Is Crusader Aura really worth the point in instanced content where a lot of times it’s unmounted? Granted we get it for free, but if they’re going to be making changes like this it definitely is a blow to the budget of our talent tree. We lose one thing and gain nothing in compensation.

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488

We have Devo Aura.
The healing/tanking specs of those classes you named also bring Chaos Brand, Mystic Touch, and PI/Fort, do they not?

489

Barring PI, they get their raid buffs for free, we have to actually talent into Devo and for ret to perform it needs every available talent node it can get for the throughput talents. It means we have to give up something else somewhere.

As I said the budget of the class tree was thrown out of whack for retribution with no compensation.

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490

I’ll accept that you can’t find a single talent point to spare, but I will say that numerous posts on many of the various non-paladin threads and forums have people making the same sorts of complaints about their talent trees. Not one class can get everything they want.

491

I’ve never been happy with Retribution Aura - in any of its iterations. I love the fantasy of the paladin lashing out in retribution for their allies taking damage, but the OG aura always felt lackluster (as it would mostly trigger off the tanks, which didn’t feel very aura-like) and the now-removed version would proc rarely, and it was kind of selfish (again, not very aura-like).

I almost wish Retribution Aura worked more like a Blessing (target an ally, and punish those who hurt them), but Blessing of Sacrifice: Recompense already kind of fits that role. Maybe what I would like better would be a cooldown ability, that accumulates damage/stacks as the paladin’s allies take damage, before… doing something damage-y. Buffing the paladin’s damage, reflecting some of the damage back to those who dealt it, stuff like that. AMZ meets Spell Reflect meets paladin.

492

You don’t grab Divine Purpose which is meh anyways or the choice node of Incandescence & Touch of Light which are also both meh as well. You miss out on 1 talent that ultimately doesn’t do much compared to the benefit of Devo aura. Ret having to take Devo doesn’t hurt their throughput by any means.

Don’t get me wrong though, getting rid of Ret Aura should mean that all three Paladin specs get Devo Aura for free instead of having to spend a talent point cause there’s absolutely no reason to force Ret to have Crusader Aura for free while Prot & Holy get Devo for free.

493

Blessing of Spellwarding was briefly available to Ret and Holy during the DF beta and it kinda broke the game.

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494

If Ret Aura is going to be removed, what is even the point in keeping Crusader Aura as a talent? It already didn’t have much reason to not be a baseline spell, now it has literally no reason to remain a talent.

In fact with there no longer being much of a choice in auras anyway, there is now basically no point in ANY auras being talents, so just make them all baseline again. I’ve seen like 20 other specs getting core things baseline, and Auras as more core to Paladin than most of those things were.

Might as well also make Greater Judgment accessible earlier and give that to Ret for free, since it’s so core to how the spec works. Or just move Rebuke and Punishment up.

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495

lets get one thing straight, ret can still grab devo aura for relatively 0 cost. lets not spread misinfo about ret being able to grab devo aura.

that being said i am surprised that ret aura got taken out back. it was definitely a choice in regards of class composition. granted i do see the reasoning behind it, frankly paladin having two raidspots while majority of other specs have 1 is definitely oppressive. that being said i do believe ret should still bring something to the table that prot and hpal cant do.

i believe this is the best time to reintroduce blessings but not as a raid buff but rather as a external like pi/ sac.

also again i see further tuning to templar strike and frankly it still boggles the mind. simply because it doesnt matter how much ts is buffed if we dont play it due to gcd economy. radiantglory making hammer of wrath avaliable at a 60+% uptime simply makes ts a non option. to me this is a waste of dev time trying to tune a lost cause simply cause a select few like it. tuning it in a way that doesnt solve the issue thats causing it not to be pressed anyways.

its already to late within the beta cycle to consider the removal of the problem talent, so instead i hope you buff our spenders further and nerf our generators in damage

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496

Here is some feed back for ya.

What in the god damn hell are these people smoking? pugs don’t give a sh** about “Utility.” Guilds and Organized groups do. But now, we are straight back to Dragonflight Launch with this sh**. ALL of the utility we bring, comes with Prot Paladin. But oh wait, they have Spellwarding, and we don’t. All of our Utility comes with Holy Paladins. But wait they have Aura mastery… JFC! utility radio edit that!

Where is the compensation? Crusader Aura? That god damn spell should be baseline given to you at same level you get your first mount. Why in the blue hell should we have to spend a radio edit talent point on it? Oh do we get it for free for choosing Retribution Spec? Whoopty radio edit Doo! We already have to spend 3 god damn talent points on divine steed, and now DK’s can spend one talent point in one hero talent tree, and not just get to choose between 2 better horses, but the in combat one makes their burst of movement speed now 100x better than our 3 points.

Touch of Light. yet again another POS talent, that is laughable that it is even in the talent tree. Two percent leech heals more than that does, and the helm enchant does more damage than it does, and the helm enchant from Amirdrassil is pathetic.

YOU need to make Crusader Aura baseline and they need to bring back Pursuit of Justice into that talent node right TF now! Your not giving us a leap, or dash. Judgment of Justice is a Dollar Tree version of Long Arm of the Law. and its on clearance. So we seem to be stuck with this damn pony. Hell why is it even a steed? it should be a goblin or Gnome built motorized wheelchair for radio edit sake!

But even the Pony isn’t ours any more. Give us Pursuit of Justice back, and have it stack with Crusader Aura.

This is as much Horsesh** as when they put in decimating bolts into destro, and gutted Demo’s demon core return. No its not the same power wise, but its equal in its BS!

Hammer of Light. It uses the same damn animation as Templar’s Verdict, and all that happens is a flash of light, and some white Blades of Justice pop up?

It needs to be an Executioner’s Sentence hammer, 3x or 4x the size crashing down into the mobs at a bare minimum.

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497

you can write all of this without being a goober btw. going ful lrant mode wont help anyone. also alot of the info here is incorrect

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498

Exactly, the top of the class tree definitely needs a look at. Especially with how they “budget” their class design.

We may just have to vote with our wallets again like we did in DF. I would say it is pretty apparent in hindsight that they were trying to woo us back and our slowly undoing the 10.1 changes piece by piece.

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499

no it didn’t. You know how much damage was in Vault of the Incarnates that you could mitigate with Blessing of Protection? Zero. all it was good for was protecting someone that butt pulled trash.

500

Na na na… They just didnt remove ret aura and gave nothing for it right? Wth Blizz?? With legendary removal we will fall to mid low tier, they are pushing for templar playstyle that will complicate simplistic trait that made many people jump to ret, and now aura removed? What do we bring to the table now lmao. Couldnt you just nerf ret aura in raid setting and be done with it.

501

How does Templar “complicate” the spec???