So Oracle is getting redesigned. I guess our feedback about weapons on the ground Lightsmith wasn’t negative enough 
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imean the fix for lightsmith is just making it on cast instead of floor stuff
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Yeah…
Since Oracle is getting scrapped, I would suggest taking another strong look at Lightsmith as well.
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They mentioned ‘playtesting it internally’ as one of the reasons for its redesign, meaning they found issues with its design while trying it themselves. I’m not sure what that means for Lightsmith, like have they playtested it and found no issues/disagree with feedback here since we haven’t played with it yet, or have they just not gotten to it? I wonder if they are waiting until we get to try it to see if we still have the same complaints.
Or maybe it was just going to be too difficult to balance Oracle whereas balancing/tuning the Armaments seems pretty easy.
Idk but I would definitely suggest another look at Lightsmith, especially the Valiance talent. That is by far the worst offender, alongside possibly ‘Blessing of the Forge’ which is the capstone wings talent. Valiance turning Armaments into a maintenance buff just ruins it entirely imo, especially for holy paladins as it will kinda force infusion usage even if you don’t want to use Infusion yet, plus holy has enough to focus on, it doesn’t need another maintenance buff. The Wings talent is tbd, Valiance though has obvious problems.
Lastly placing weapons on the ground that people have to pick up has some foreseeable problems as well.
I think if it worked this way it might be better gameplay wise:
Holy Bulwark- Has the same effect as currently but you throw a holy shield to a selected player
Sacred Weapon- Manifest a Sacred Weapon and slam it into the ground, players within 20 yards have a random chance to deal additional damage as holy damage for the duration of the Sacred Weapon (maybe add a player cap to this or something).
Basically just thinking of a way to keep cool visuals for it while getting rid of the issues it may have as an interactable thing. Theres plenty of ways though, this is just an example.
I am fairly sure that what broke it in internal testing was the 1-5 second delay caused by the cycling cards when you went to buff someone and presumably you couldn’t cast other spells while doing so.
If they made it a cast @ friend rather than a place on ground thing, it might be better but my problems with the current iteration of Lightsmith go beyond just the current UX of the Weapon placement.
It’s another button. As a Holy main, I don’t think we need another Blessing of Summer like button. Can you imagine playing both? Place-weapons-on-the-ground simulator whilst tracking DPS CDs and casting a rotating external buff every 45 seconds via Blessings (Summer). On top of that you have your healing priority, CDs, procs, resource management, and if you’re in a M+, mechanics, kicks and affixes. Like it’s ridiculous.
The passive talents on the tree are just an exercise in pulling the core mechanics of a spec and throwing them at a wall. There are interactions with consuming Infusions, spending Holy Power, pressing Crusader Strike, Judgement and casting Wings. If you know anything about the current interaction of Holy paladin, you’ll understand how that’s an issue. The spec is currently being pulled in 3 directions and this tree does nothing to address that. To maximize this tree you’re supposed to consume all Holy Shocks, Judgments, Crusader Strikes, Infusions and spend as much HoPo as possible. As things are now, that’s not really possible.
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I tried healing with holy pal this patch.
The only thing I got from the tree is that I’m suppose to use holy shock, a lot.
The rest doesn’t make sense.
Why is Awestruck and Holy infusion a choice node?
Why is Light of the martyr a thing if it doesn’t interact with any other mechanics we have?
- Healing is not replicated on Beacon
- It feeds into Tyr’s deliverance but doesn’t interact with it either
Why do I not have a range damage spender if I’m supposed to be healing from range?
Am I suppose to run in every time and get out?
Finally when I finished making some sense out of what I was supposed to do, I realized I didn’t have enough keybind with my current setup.
I would need to modify it and relearn where my stuff is.
That’s where I drew the line, I don’t have time for this. 
I found a better use of my time would be to actually level a disc priest, so that way I could at least get S2 transmog for my pally in WarWithin.
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The only good thing about Seraphim was the prot paladin burst build it enabled in PvP prior to them getting dumpstered. One could argue it wasn’t good for the game per se, but honestly, it was other things like ancient queen that break prot paladin in PvP. They only worked in certain niches because of obviously wacky abilities. I’d much rather they try to make all PvP tanks balanced against Guardian Druid and Vengeance DH as a standard with the emphasis on viability in flag carrying. Paladins being trash at that but still somewhat viable means their strengths were misplaced for the role in PvP. Now it is just trash at everything, but I’m off topic now. Seraphim just reminded me of the good old days of prot PvP.
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CLICK THE LIGHTWELL!
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I hope light smith can also be reworked along with oracle priest. Trying to get people to use ground pick up mechanics and even more external buffs sounds like a bad game play loop.
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It tells me devs don’t play M+ (or generally don’t play games) again, otherwise they’ll know it’s practically impossible to constantly step on a friendly object in complicated M+ environment and already messy M+ visual effects.
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I will be refunding my money. Good luck to you Blizz.
Still so confused as to why “HEY take a weapon! Take a Shield” is anywhere near Paladins class identity.
Looking at what we have so far for Hero Talents, Paladin is the only one that has basically a whole new playstyle, other classes have “increases already known spell damage by % or healing by %” simple and doesnt make you want to rip your hair out.
Whoever is in charge of Paladin dev is like a child with a pound of coke and a box full of markers. 0 reasoning to why they do what they do, its just gogogog idea boom. Nobody likes it, there is no communication whatsoever, and the ideas that are being spit out are just outright dumb. Id rather not have Hero talents than whats being placed at out feet.
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What about PVP? Can you imagine? Dude theyre so out of touch. @.@
kind of funny that oracle is getting another look because priests rebelled against turning PI into a new ability. I wouldn’t mind if Lightsmith transformed one of our other buttons to reduce bloat instead of giving us a new one.
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What are you meaning to Convey with this?
What about PVP? Can you imagine? Dude theyre so out of touch. @.@
On paper, the Lightsmith talents could be good for Holy Paladins in PvP for two reasons:
- Bulwark gives you preemptive healing.
Similar to a Shaman casting Earthen Wall totem before a CC chain, a Paladin could save this ability, to use it right before a CC chain, giving their ally an absorb shield to aid in living.
*Assuming this shield can’t be dispelled…
- Echo of the Forge gives you more snap healing and Denounce damage
Echoing your Holy Power finishers gives you more powerful snap healing, if you only have 1 second to get a heal off cause of CC, or gives you more burst in your AW DPS window if you use Denounce.
Again, on paper, these effects could be very useful for Holy Paladins.
However…
In actual practice these abilities could end up being very hard to use. Positioning matters a lot in PvP, and getting your Ape Solo Shuffle teammates to go collect a buff on the ground could end up being quite the challenge, lol.
In SS or BG Blitz, where players are usually more invested in pressing their own buttons, these spells will probably be next to useless and the Paladin would just revert to casting it on themselves every 20 sec and hoping the RNG talent puts the copy buff on the right person.
(Prot Paladin is pretty dead in PvP atm cause it has no rightful place. It’s a terrible tank, a terrible healer and not much of a support class. The PvP Talents haven’t been updated for Prot to give it an “identity” worth mentioning.)
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My pvp concerns are the same as yours as far as Lightsmith goes.
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So, as a prot paladin, say I used Eye of Tyr and get this Hammer of Light spender…
I gotta spend 5 holy power. And get an effect that causes me to aoe and reduce damage of targets by 5%
But shield of the righteous is 3 holy power. Aoes, gives me 17% damage reduction, heals allies, and grants stacking stam and str…
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Leaving feed-back for both templar/herald here.
Is it really necessary to have both hero talents on a final capstone talent in the ret tree? If so, then the ret tree needs to be redesigned with wake on the top of the tree, where the core abilities of ret is at so that everyone will pick it up and the illusion of choice on wake is settled. The entire point of DF talents is to be able to choose talents of your choice with the exception of the top talents. Forcing ret’s to pick up wake removes said choice, even if not choosing it is bad.