That sounds very Templar and I’m here for it.
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Blizzard requires 10 characters (a, b, c, … punctuation, etc.) to make a post. The answer to your questions were so simple that “No.” and “No.” did not equal 10 characters. Quotes do not count towards the total number of characters. Therefore, I had to artificially lengthen my response by typing /10chars. It is a common tactic used on the forums.
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Thanks for letting me know
Not only that, they can give us a skill with it to use our shield, and the game will see a return of a “sword and board” dps theme that was lost since WoD.
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I like the concept of the lightsmith in terms of support.
A couple of things. Don’t make the weapons be pickable, people will ignore them while they are doing mechanics.
Give more passive benefits, and more buttons for the holy paladin is insane, I have my keyboard full. Make Judgment Heal AOE a thing.
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Am I alone in feeling that a hero talent tree focused on using the Light as a literal weapon seems like it would fall under Ret’s wheelhouse? I was a bit bummed when I read and realized this was being given to Prot instead. I think a lot of other posts cover other feedback I would have, just wanted to add that class-fantasy wise, this seems like a mis-pick.
I think the idea is that it’s a “support” spell (because it’s targeting allies), and tanks/healers are considered supporting the group more than ret. I could be wrong.
If the weapons were attacking automatically like a pet they would have probably fit more with the ret spec.
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The rational could be spun for any of them really.
But as a Ret main, I don’t want that thing in its current form anywhere near me.
Hope we get some more previews this week.
These are both good points. Just on class lore/fantasy alone, Holy would be the “Jedi Master” of controlling the Light and so giving them the Lightsmith tree makes sense, and from a role perspective, Prot is a better fit for support heavy talents, I would agree.
From a broader view, I think part of the Paladin flavor/theme is being supportive though. We have auras, shielding spells, and powerful heals. I think it is right that you could make it work or justify it for Ret as much as any other spec, but I agree that I would want it reworked if it were going to be split between Holy and Ret.
If it were going to be reworked for Ret, part of me thought it would be interesting to see it utilized as a full ranged conversion for the spec (range could be up for debate). We could use swords and hammers of light to fill the role of our auto attacks and we basically have everything we need.
And I think it would synthesize well with Holy, especially if the GoL playstyle is still the go-to.
What I like about the Hero talent concept is that it opens the door to explore aspect about classes that got trimmed in WoW.
For example, Blademasters that were in W3 but not explicitly a thing in WoW.
If Hero talent are supposed to be this evergreen feature, I could see them add some more every expansion.
We could get Hero talents that shift Paladins connection from the light to the void/shadows (could call them Oathbreakers or something like that) or to the Fel.
The only worrying thing is the added complexity this could lead to down the line if they start pumping many hero talents per classes.
It also raise significant concerns for balancing.
i know the line of thinking. but considering how strong lightforge capstone would be for ret if it wasnt nerfed to the usual echo damage of “20%”. heck its strong for holy and prot dps wise. echoing wog means nothing to holy. but echoing sotr for both specs durign your big damage window is just…kind ainsane? i doubt this will be a 100% echo
Depends on tuning of course, but currently Holy’s AW and HP Finishers are undertuned enough that this probably wouldn’t be that OP even when paired with Daybreak/Rising Sunlight.
Especially if you consider other Hero Talents like Priest’s Oracle.
The WoWhead writer mentioned adding this to Ret:
(https://www.wowhead.com/news/protection-paladin-review-of-lightsmith-hero-talents-unnecessarily-complicated-336930)
Is Holy Armaments better in the Retribution Spec Tree?
The question has to be asked: Is Holy Armaments in the right place? I think you can make a reasonable argument that Retribution needs something unique that only they bring. They don’t have
Blessing of Spellwarding like Protection, or
Aura Mastery like Holy and
Retribution Aura is class wide. Retribution lacks a thing that gives them identity over other Paladins, and even over other melee specs. Holy Armaments conceptually fits the fantasy of the entire class and could solve consistent player feedback around Retribution’s utility.
Personally, I think Ret could spare a button to utilize this effect, but I would not be interested in micro managing a reticle system while DPSing myself, idk how others would feel.
Also, while the Blessing of the Forge would fit in with Ret’s playstyle historically, I’d ask if that would be a really interesting cap stone for a new hero tree? It’s a concept that been used multiple times over the years…
thats why i mentioned dps finishers. idk friend, i dont think i want lightsmith as a ret thing. theres utility and there’s this mess. ofcourse said mess can be less of a mess if blizzard made it target cast instead of floor buff. lightsmith f antasy wise is “okay” we saw it alot of times with lightforge so it fits. but frankly some fantasy should just be ncp fantasy
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I think it all looks terrible.
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Absolutely not, because you aren’t using the light as a weapon. You are summoning weapons via the light to support and buff other players. You are not summing a holy weapon to wield and do damage with, you are throwing a weapon on the ground for your target to (hopefully) pick up and get a survivability increase or damage increase based on what weapon cycle you were on. This doesn’t feel like a ret thing at all.
If it was about summoning a giant holy sword that you wield which increases your damage/healing for x time then yes it would fit ret, but in its current form definitely not.
It’s also a maintenance buff due to the valiance talent, so I’d never want this as a dps. At all. Truthfully looks horrible for prot/holy too though.
I appreciate that your team of devs are trying some new things, but clicking on things in the world or having to pick them up is not the answer. If you’re dead set on those new abilities, why not make it an aura that people can acquire within a certain radius.
OTHER IDEAS
Mobility - Paladins are warriors of the light, riding into battle atop their loyal steeds. Why not create an improvement on mobility talent that summons our steed; DIVINE WARHORSE. The horse could be a refresh (Light knows we need it) and would last longer and/or grant steeds for your party. Lots of potential there and it addresses an ongoing concern with Pally mobility.
My $.02
Ramezez
I agree with the point you make in the rest of your post, that in its current form, this tree is support themed in the sense that we are making weapons and other stuff out of Light to support our allies.
With that said, Ret DOES use the Light as a weapon. Our Mastery is literally a boost to our ability to do so. All Paladin specs can make the same basic claim though, so it is not worth arguing about. Personally though, if we were ranking the specs based on the importance of the Light to fulfilling their function, I would rank them Holy > Ret > Prot. Again, keeping in mind that this is a fine divide; all Paladin specs rely on the Light.
Oh yeah ret does use the light as a weapon for sure, but the way Lightsmith is currently does not match Rets theme of using the light as a weapon as it is a bit more aggressive than holy or prot. Again if Lightsmith was about summoning a holy weapon that you can wield yourself and it does some cool stuff then i’d say that fits ret, but in its current form with throwing weapons on the floor it just doesn’t imo. I don’t really think it fits prot either to be fair, but I can see it a lot more than ret. For ret I would expect the trees to focus more on what we actually attack with than giving us something new to support other players, that is definitely better suited for a tank or healer since these trees are so limited.
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While we don’t have this anymore, Seraphim was almost literally this. Just replace the sword with a mace and there you go.
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Yeah just that seraphim didn’t really add much to gameplay imo, I wasn’t a fan of it at least but thematically it absolutely did fit the fantasy and is essentially what I’m talking about, maybe just a better bigger visual.