Feedback: Oracle in The War Within

The fact that ‘Save the Day’ was even put in the game is kinda insulting.

Clairvoyance is pretty crap too. It basically just adds Insight and Solace to Piety. However with the forced rotational change you only get Piety 1 time every 3 minutes.

Then they removed the only decent talent in the whole Oracle tree ‘Prompt Deliverance’ (reduced dispel CD) because and I quote “but we’ve decided it’s better to keep the single target defensive dispel cooldowns aligned across the healers” Man, glad they did that, wouldn’t want Priests to have an edge over any other healer(oh wait Revival is still in game, as is Mass Dispel).

Pretty hefty failure.

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Honestly, they could just substitute Ward of Salvation from Remix for Prescience, give it a rename, and we’re in business.

Have grand reveal give CDR for doing stuff, and give an option to spread it over the party via choice node for M+.

Idk, make it bake you a batch of cookies, but for the love of Velen’s glorious beard, no buff roulette. I hate it on Hpal with summer, I hate it here worse.

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The worst part about this fiasco is that they have dozens of Dev replies where they say “we don’t want to pre-setup and other forms of degenerate gameplay” and then they shoehorn in the degeneracy trifecta of Premonition + Divine Providence + Claivoyance. You WILL cycle to Solace, you WILL hold for 2 charges, you WILL double-tap for buffed Piety, you WILL eat the buff roulette.

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  • New Talent: Save the Day – For 6 seconds after casting Leap of Faith, you may cast it a second time for free, ignoring its cooldown.

I see Blizzard continues it’s campaign of trying to give us every variation of a leap of faith talent except the one that’s actually widely requested.

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What I don’t understand is why someone would think I would want to play this hero tree as holy. Archon feels like it actual has synergistic game play elements that feed into your normal play patters. Oracle is the dart board of talents and it looks like it is either premonition or bust.

  1. Preemptive Care: Renew +3 sec. I am not going to be casting this spell, it only accounts for my healing now when it procs from my 4-piece set and that will be gone next expansion.
  2. Save the day: I don’t use leap of faith honestly; I am more often in need to be saved since I am so slow. Is this to troll the Demon hunter or tank who is running faster than you? Why is it so hard to give us the leap of faith to our allies.
  3. Divine feather: my feathers are just for me I have an at player macro, I guess at least I am faster.
  4. Foreseen circumstances: just two sec on GS, not once have I thought if I had two more sec on my GS we would have made it.
  5. Waste no time why would I take this? An instant cast Heal or Prayer of Healing. Heal is a filler spell, and Prayer of healing is not worth casting due to mana cost and power, this talent doesn’t even make it free it is just 15% cheaper.
  6. I will be honest I dislike Premonition the rotating buff is just not fun for me. For the most part premonition is just about over healing. And I think this is a poor play pattern and should not be rewarded.
  7. Oracle is just healing nothing no extra damage the minimal utility vs Archon or Void Weaver. As we have seen this expansion you can’t just sit back and just heal you need to bring something else. Is this to be the raid Tree? Maybe if you play this perfect it could be better, I just don’t know.

Why would a rational person at this point choose Oracle there is no opportunity cost or loss for choosing to play Archon or Void weaver. There are so many hoops to jump through to get this hero tree to work and I just don’t see it as worth the effort.

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Priest mains: Hey, can we have an interesting hero talent theme instead of this insult of an Oracle spec?

Blizz: “Best I can do is 2 leap of faiths within 6 seconds”

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I think the failure here is thinking that the issue was only that it was leaning into support spec territory

So let me clarify;
1- Support type abilities can work if they are well designed, Oracle v1 was not well design simply because it wedged itself in a class not designed for that
2- the main issue was and remains the roulette type choose your buff, that was the first thing that should have been revisited as, once again, the classes are not built around that kind of mechanics. It works on FFXIV Astrologian because the whole class is built around it

TLDR; roulette has to go. And while we are at it make PI personal and remove twin suns so we can finally get a kick and brez, and maybe even an actual proper defensive button.

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Seriously at this point, just make Premonition apply all 3 buffs (Piety, Insight and Solace), simple you press it and then become super charged.

Clairvoyance - every second Premonition grants all of your Premonition effects at 100% effectiveness. (Tuning knob so can be adjusted)

Easy to use, simple, none of this convoluted rotation or anything, press the button get all effects.

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Right now my feelings about Oracle vs Archon and Voidweaver can best be summed up with a food analogy.

Voidweaver: A perfect piece of Wagu beef served with a truffle salad and buttery smooth mash cooked by a Michelin star chef.

Archon: A burger and steak fries from a respectable mid range family restaurant (not a chain restaurant)

Oracle: A slab of uncooked tofu topped with a ‘Sauce’ made from tinned sardines, cocoa and whipped cream run through a blender by your mad uncle Trev.

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Oh, hurk, I gagged a bit at the thought of the smell of that.

Hmmm… almost the same as my reaction to the ‘complete’ Oracle tree, really.

I love seeing all these other class/specs getting massive attention in class/spec reworks that addresses a lot of the pain points those class/specs have and for the most part it seems they are doing a lot of good changes.

Then all I see for priest changes is tweaks to Shadow Crash for Shadow (forcing the use of an unfun and mechanically flawed spell instead of outright replacing it with something better like Unholy Nova from Shadowlands or Dark Void or Cascade)
Or tweaks to Oracle to still force the most unfun and degenerate inducing gameplay style of buff roulette cycling in such an asinine way.

While all the issues that affect priest at a core level like survivability and mobility with lack of escapes and displacements and multiple redundant spells that accomplish the same effect throughout the class and specs just goes unnoticed or on deft ears.

Like I just don’t understand how when it comes to priests having the same utility as other classes it’s met with “not all classes should have same type of utility” but when priest being the ONLY class in game to have a Hero spec that is cross between 2 healing specs and it’s decided that is not enough of a decision to allow them the kings of dispelling and the dispel defensive should be the same across all healers??? Double standard much?

So if priests are lacking it’s because not all classes should have access to similar toolkit. But if priests stand out then all other classes should have equal playing field? Like what in the actual freak is going on here?

Stop with these trivial waste of time changes of forcing unfun gameplay into the class and specs of priest and actually address the pain points that drag the class and specs down… not add onto the already existing annoying aspects the class and specs is forced to deal with.

Shadowcrash is so annoying for multiple reasons… but the worst aspect is the ground targeting function that often leads to it being launched at the ceiling or off in a direction you did not intend… the same can be said for Angelic Feather and as such WHY so many people use it with a macro to cast at self and NOT manually place on ground.

Recently I decided to run Torgast to get the cosmetics and I can’t tell you how many times both feather and Shadowcrash ended up on some beam or chain across the room or above me.

The game is just not designed to play well with these area affect spells being casted via a targeting circle on ground from far away from you… stop forcing this type of mechanic when your game glitches all the time with how these interact with it.

Also… a second leap of faith within 6 seconds? This is such a niche spell that it almost seems the stars have to align for you being the slow class to be in the correct spot while another class is in the wrong spot for you to use it on them to net a positive outcome… having another one within 6 seconds is an almost impossible scenario to ever play out. It’s a niche situation ON TOP of a niche situation. Seriously… what are you guys thinking over there? Do any of you actually play the priest class? You need some actual major help… please get some help as clearly you guys either hate priest or have no clue what it’s like to play one.

I will also add that simply giving Leap of a faith a second charge outright would STILL be a questionable talent as we often don’t use the one we have already. But instead of just outright getting a second charge of it… we get this lame 6 second window? What is with these half thought ideas you guys are coming up with? Stop thinking of how a priest should play before you actually play one… seems none of you have any amount of experience playing a priest in any setting. Actually address our issues and stop causing more or addressing things that are not issues. This is getting absolutely ridiculous to see day in and day out nothing substantial that address priest concerns. It’s downright insulting.

Ahh rant over… Uggg

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Great rant, perfectly put, thanks Aneurysm.

The feedback on Oracle has been pretty consistent since the beginning:

  • cycling buffs feel bad and add unneeded cognitive load
  • the buffs themselves are not impactful
  • some of these talents are disproportionately more powerful for one spec vs. the other

So it’s pretty disheartening that despite all the feedback on these points, this isn’t what’s being iterated on and instead we’re seeing weird changes to the tree’s utility options that just highlight the existing utility issues we have in the class tree. Heck, if Oracle was the way to get Vault of the Heavens, I’d consider it even if the rest of the tree continued to be as awful as it currently is!

As an aside I’d also note how charming it was months ago when Blizz noted how excited they were for Oracle’s visuals – really, the eye on your head is exciting? Have you seen Voidweaver?!?

Between poor progress on Oracle and a lack of class/spec tree updates (Holy is going to be hurt badly by losing its current tier bonus, which the rest of its abilities were nerfed for), this doesn’t feel good. I actually like Archon, mismatch of flavor text to implementation aside, but that doesn’t make up for the ongoing mess we’re seeing continued here.

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So in my recent experience with Shadowlands content in the pursuit of acquiring cosmetics, I’ve been playing the Path of Ascension content a bit and I would like to point out some things I noticed and found interesting.

In the Path of Ascension content, you can pick your soulbinds to take control like a vehicle and fight in an arena with. Among these soulbinds you will find that Kleia is rather interesting.

Kleia has an ability to jump into combat similar to a Warriors Heroic Leap yet it’s using the Leap of Faith icon… Assuming you use her wings to fly and land at the targeted location.
She also has an super powered up state with cool visuals that goes by the name Archons Gift.

Kleia specializes in melee combat, not afraid to face her challenges toe to toe. As an ascended Kyrian, she is able to leap great distances with her wings and channel the Archon’s Gift to greatly empower her attacks.

I find it both odd and interesting that you can have this Angelic 🪽 being able to have these cool features that us Priests lack completely.

Because that Archons Gift gives me more of a feeling of being an Archon than just some Halos expanding and contracting does :dracthyr_shrug:

I would like to think that if Door of Shadows not being added because it doesn’t fit the theme of lets say Holy because it’s too “Shadowy” themed then surely we should be able to sprout wings and fly and land in our chosen area as that will fit priest just as much as Angelic Feather :feather: and Leap of Faith with its feathered wings visual.

To add to this, I also took notice of the Valkyrie that shows up that was sent by Odyn during the story and there is a moment where a Kyrian and a Valkyrie meet and are intrigued by each other and the similarities they share and want to discuss further at a later date.

Also it’s kind of on the nose that these Afterlife Angelic beings just happen to belong to the group known as Kyrian… kyrian / Valkyrie… Val-Kyrie Val-Kyrian… Just seems like it’s very related and intentionally so at that.

So since paladins take on the Templar holy warrior archetype, seems like with all the wings and feathers that is already present in Priest should very much include some borrowing of archetype from Angels and Valkyries as those aesthetics are very much already hinted at.

I say this because what seems to be happening to me at least is that blizzard has a massive lack of vision and direction to take priest in and of the attempts to take this direction in and base our spells and toolkit around have continually seems to only work and fit for single spec and since Holy and Shadow are so diametrically opposed, seems like going hard into Angelic and Valkyries will present ample grounds to base abilities around and make sense for our toolkit. Because just simply giving priests an ability like Heroic Leap makes no sense… But add in the context that you sprout wings and fly into the air and then heck maybe float for a few seconds before you either slowing decend back towards to ground or you can choose to leap to a location like with an extra action button appearing for you while you hovering above the ground.

I just really think we are missing a central theme that works for all 3 specs to focus on that makes sense without making any spec feel like it’s a forced theme. But with the Angelic and Valkyrie angle, I think that could become fresh grounds of ideas to be explore and build around and will actually grant us the desperate toolkit we are lacking while also cleaning up our redundant spells still littered about.

Because I can’t stand that I need to take both Angelic Feather and Body and Soul to have the best movement possible because both are subpar alone and we lack any other option of movement like displacement abilities.

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I’m sure this took you 30 seconds to come up with off the top of your head, and yet it’s miles better than Blizzard’s current iteration.

Why give Holy Priest another button (With three separate instances of use) when it’s already a bloated spec?

Thankfully someone else noticed this as well, this is my biggest gripe with the tree.
Despite Archon being terrible thematically, it’s miles better for burst windows, and dots, and it’s entirely passive.

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Blizzard: We will give you Premonition. You will use Premonition all the time.

Priests: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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You know now that I think about it…

It really should be passive and random.

If we think about the idea of having a premonition, it’s like a vision of the future that comes to you without you seeking it out… you simply cannot force yourself to have a premonition… that would simply defeats its entire meaning.

So what if you just had a totally passive at all times happening at random between 10-60 seconds you would receive a premonition that takes the form of 1 of 3 versions that affect your spells in various ways.

So no more extra button to press, it just happens at random intervals enhancing your spells to add an extra effect.

Some effect type examples…

  • X spells do Y effect for the next 10 seconds.
  • Your next 3(X) spells do Y effect.

Then the supporting talents should revolve around enhancing the effect you get.

  • Your premonition duration is increased by 100%.
  • Your premonition effects are increased by 100%.

So the premonition buff window lasts longer or you have more spells that benefit from the premonition buff.
So instead of a 10 second buff window, it would be 20 seconds.
So instead of the next 3 spells affected, it would be the next 6 spells that are affected.
And/or the effects are amplified.

So essentially you would randomly get a window of opportunity of enhanced spells that lasts for a short while (Buff) and pending the type of premonition you receive, they change the “buff” that is added to your spells.

Premonition buff ideas…

  • Provide damage reduction by X amount
  • Increase secondary stats by X amount
  • Grant leech effect by X amount

Heck maybe you provide all effects but the premonition effect just applies differently at random.

Premonition A = Single Target spells
Premonition B = Area of affect spells
Premonition C = Periodic spells

Very rough but the idea of a passive occurring at random premonition buff that affects either some type of spells or a given next number of spells or for a duration all spells in granting either a single or multiple additional buffs is the direction I am thinking of.

Not a fan of randomness in healing, frankly. Flash Profs are fine, but being unable to control a big buff feels bad.

Also, for the love of the naaru’s glowing golden crystal container, don’t add a changeable buff! Weakaura bloat is real, just make it do one thing, and well. I don’t need more stuff to track!

I could however, see it being a charge system where the proc adds a charge, and you spend them all to empower X number of spells, like a proc based Sheilun’s Gift.

the war within beta test begins june 5

Are they even listening to us here?
We are entering beta with Potato.

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It isn’t even a good potato, we get one of those poisonous ones with all the sprouts.

Between the fact that they can’t figure out something that is not a crappy roulette style buff, nor figure out what the word premonition means, we will likely be waiting till this time next year or later for Oracle to be worth trying.

After seeing the ‘replacement’ human racial for diplo I am convinced that interns are making 50% of the balance decisions at this point, so maybe the current state of Oracle is the best we can expect.(Edit: or maybe this is a Design by AI experiment, but the AI they setup for it is on the same level as the one that says you should add glue to your pizza to make the cheese stick :stuck_out_tongue: )

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