Feedback: Oracle in The War Within

Premonition back in the other expansion for PVP was sick I loved it this on the other hand is complete Dogwater. I hate it and I think it might even have some potential in PVP along with archangel and dark archangel due to the stacking 1 minute CD’s I still hate it.

Pre-emptive measures is kind of Meh I agree we should be pressing POM but I don’t think this is enough to make it interesting or good for that matter of face atleast in PVP.

Pre-emptive care is boring I don’t care for it I just press renew to get shield back up and 1 second on atonement is that a joke.

Micaculous recovery is clearly the best talent . So good I will never chose the other option.

Assured safety is lame it’s esentially a round about way of saying we increased power word shield’s healing in a round about way.

Prompt deliverance is amazing cant wait for it in pvp the feather talent is lame don’t want to use it.

Forseen circumstances is good but 10% is lame people die in PVP through PS even when pressed on 100% all the time this talent is good but too low numbers. I also just out of principle dont want to play it why does PS suck so bad baseline.

Divine providence is terrible because I hate the premonition mechanic.

After reading all the rest of the talents there isn’t a single talent on the last 2 rows (4 talents) that I would play and be happy about it.

Frankly this is a fail 3/10 hopefully voidweaver is better.

I have a few more thoughts.

What if the priest does not care for either Hero talent trees? Will it be possible to opt-out of hero talents altogether?

As a holy priest, it seems my choice will be either to give up PI (by selecting the Oracle tree) or perhaps not (by selecting the Archon tree). What ability if any will the Archon tree “replace” or force us to give up?

PI is located on the 5th row of the Priest talent tree and costs 1 point. If Premonition replaces PI does that mean the priest will be required to invest a point into PI in order to unlock the Oracle tree?

It does not seem the devs are honoring the following commitment:

“Hero Talents are meant to add enough damage or healing throughput to be significant without being so important that these new talents overshadow your current class and spec tree talents.”

If I have to invest 1 point into PI and then in order to be an Oracle I have to give up PI isn’t that the definition of overshadowing my talent?

Given that the current generic priest tree has no talents that are good fits for the concept of an archon I expect it to power up other choices on a “If shadow your shadowform gains X, if holy your guardian angel gains Y” model".

There is no good shared ability between holy/shadow so I expect the theme to be vague. I would have said use PI for Archon but they have already taken it for this abomination of a hero tree. This is yet more evidence that the idea of hero talents across 2 specs makes no sense in many class cases.

Either that or they merge similar spells to become a new spell.

  1. Holy Fire / Mind Blast
  2. Renew / Shadow Word: Pain
  3. Power Word: Life (Should be Holy Word imo) / Shadow Word: Death
  4. Holy Word: Sanctify / Shadow Crash
  5. Prayer of Healing / Mind Sear (if returned)
  6. Guardian Spirit / Dark Ascension
  7. Holy Word: Chastise / Psychic Horror

Others? I can’t think of any other similar/opposite spells that make some semblance of sense.

I would say Smite / Mind Flay but I think that would make a better connection with Voidweaver for Discipline / Shadow.

Maybe add a bit to Spirit of Redemption and then grant Shadow the ability to become a Spirit/Ghost upon death to keep doing damage or whatever for 5 seconds after you die unchallenged and unable to be stopped except to out range them.

  • Vengeful Wraith
    Become a Vengeful Wraith spirit upon death, allowing you to enact vengeance upon your enemies unimpeded for x duration. You are rooted to your location of death during this effect.

I presume it’ll be something playing off of Apotheosis and Dark Ascension. Though I kind of hope for them to veer into something more ridiculous like a Holy version of Shadowy Apparitions. Some truly Auspicious Spirits or Holy Ghosts if you will.

Either way, this PI abomination probably should have been the Shadow/Holy tree given how little Holy and Shadow actually overlap. Especially because canonically, outside of Velen, there’s a lot more prophecy tied to the Void, but I think it’s pretty clear why that didn’t happen given how neatly Shadow slots into mythic+ buff comps.

I’d probably feel differently if the current proposed tree did more to actually embody the flavor text of using foresight to protect allies, but so much of the tree as it stands is just filler talents that don’t build to a coherent whole.

Thank you to everyone who provided feedback on the Oracle Hero Talent tree.

One of our goals in sharing these Hero Talent trees so early in the process was to give us adequate time to evaluate and change things as necessary. After reading your feedback, discussing the talent tree, and playtesting the concept internally, we’ve decided to revisit the Oracle tree, especially regarding its focus on replacing Power Infusion.

Thanks again!


Did I ever tell you I love you, Kaivax?

I love you <3

Looking forward to something completely different - and maybe even push a bit further and get PI to be a personal CD only again? Pushing my luck here…? :grin:

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Lightsmith has had a ton of feedback regarding it, mainly that it’s hated due to the micromanagement side.

Any news regarding it?


Appreciated however if the design mentality doesn’t change, it will continue to be an endless war.

Every avenue of aug evoker is a complete total failure both combathook-wise and also how it works ingame. The spec ruins any motivation to get better as with an aug evoker in the party there is no way to reasonably judge your own personal performance. Not talking about logs.

Power Infusion is an another catastrophic failure implementationwise and yet we still have to see the day to see it being fixed. Specs are getting unjously nerfed because of PI, priest cooldowns are bad, class is treated as a semi support to justify having a class that went thru a redesign every patch since Nyalotha pretty much to be doing subselfsufficient damage.

You can’t stop bleeding from a throatstab with a bandaid. Redesigning “oracle” will not do anything if you are adamant about making it a DPS support.


This is a good step. However being that weve only seen 9 trees and 2 of them should be completely reworked (lightsmith pally and oracle priest). Thats about a 20% failure rate which, if continued, would yield about 1/5 of the trees being not usable or fun. I know you guys have the best of intentions and are trying to produce the best product that you think well enjoy, but to be blunt, i have no faith that these things are going to be fixed before release or even shortly after release based off of historical evidence.

I would highly reccomend you guys release the concepts you guys are working on for these hero talents instead of wasting time building talent trees that we wont use or like. It doesnt have to be granular, it could just be the idea or notion that you want the tree to be.

For example, if you had told us that you wanted to make a whole hero talent tree around PI we could have told you we dont want that before you wasted time building an unviable and unfun tree.


Hey now don’t bring your paladin dirty laundry here, we talking priestly things here!

I did however post many other times about their need to follow up so, here’s hoping

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That’s all that i wanted to highlight.
I support this priest hero talent change, so hopefully they listen to the feedback properly.

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Indeed. Others already replied about other risks, and the slow pace of hero talents release and shrinking feedback time potential

San’layn buff micro management also got no follow up either for example, but for Oracle I think we saw the main unilateral rejection of the tree. Might be copium of me but I am hoping they are working on all the trees using the feedback from all released ones so far.

There’s hope for all of them, no guarantees of course, just hope!

Better chances at better hero talent trees than seeing priests get an actual defensive, Brez and revert PI to personal or nuke it, at any rate :joy:


While it’s appreciated that you’ve said that it’s being reevaluated, Priests have been in so many terrible spots over the years since Legion due to the forced playstyles imposed on disc for healing, and such awful design for Shadow that it’s very difficult to listen to a community manager say one thing, when we’ve been disappointed so many times with empty words and awful design decisions.

We don’t need to be a carbon copy of vanilla-wrath priest, but we also don’t need to have some new awful meta game with a talent that boosts other people without being as beneficial for ourselves.

Support in pve/pvp content is good, but making it so that our support is buffing others damage while we remain in a state of mediocrity or boring, uninspiring gameplay loops is not good.

Let priest stand on it’s own merits rather than the merit of buffing others to do better. We’ve also seen our kit gutted and nerfed over and over again because of our support skills. Why does a class have to suffer because it makes others stronger rather than making itself stronger and providing utility such as raid healing/dispells/etc. I mean, looking at mass dispell right now it’s painfully obvious that the changes were awful, and instead of nerfing the real problem (the content that made it mandatory on certain weeks’ affixes) the ability was destroyed beyond a reasonable expectation.

Don’t force us to be another Aug type class, make aug a real support class if you want, that supplies decent heals, raid wide buffs rather than individual buffs, and bring back things like mana regen to the raid or just all the healers that is a flat amount per tick, rather than based on using a long press-and-hold or insta activated.

Buffing some one else’s damage does not feel great when you are not seeing any reward for it. Aug’s being mandatory in various comps over the expansion because all they did was boost every one else does not feel good either, and I know the aug community is not happy with the current state.

I am honestly dreading what the shadow hero talent trees will look like at this point because it feels like such a poorly mashed together mix of various play styles without a clear vision of what it should be, and it’s so far from its original design pre-legion and even how much it’s been butchered and reworked after the legion rework, that I just expect it to continue being a mass experiment of old designs and new designs that don’t fit well within the current gameplay design (Pve is whatever, so long as you can do enough damage, and bring SOMETHING to a raid, you’re generally safe. But pvp design is abysmal, and no damage buffs, armor changes, or any numbers adjustment will fix that, they will only swing it to stupid strong damage, rather than dealing with all the problems it has with being unable to make space, cast reliably while having any focus or melee on you, and just get to stand somewhere and eat everything to the face unless you’re playing one of the very few comps that have a partner that can make space and allow it to cast for any period of time).


Light be praised. Thank you, Blizzard.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

This is good.

I also worry about how the release of these tree overviews has been slow and that they ARE using already released feedback for the new ones because that means that the initial ones, unless rebuilt from the ground up with feedback provided on them, we will end up with more patch cycles of certain trees just being awful, while the most recently worked on ones take into mind the design choices that were built upon.

On the other hand, if they are slow to release them and they haven’t taken any consideration of design changes being applied to hero talent trees, then we end up launching with trees that are just awful compared to others in every way and have to wait ages for another rework.

Reworks so frequently is a sign of how poor the overall design and balance has become over time and they’re patch-it jobs rather than an actual rework with a clear design choice and vision.

We’ve had massive sweeping changes to classes almost every expansion rather than building upon a good foundation, and that is the core issue every time and it was brought on mostly by legion completely rebuilding classes and how they play with a vision that never fully came to reality, and then another vision on top of that with another and another until the foundation is so pointless because every layer of new vision is something different from the last.

Feedback isn’t acted on properly, or quickly, and I am losing more and more faith in seeing some grand rework that makes priest its’ own class with it’s own vision that can stand on its own two feet and has utility that doesn’t involve making other classes much better without providing decent self-utility. Because every time a class has the skills to boost another person’s damage, it ends up being nerfed for the class with the utility much harsher than if it was just a self damage buff.


L change. The only people that complain about PI are the top .01% and people who blindly listen to those same people. Lets be real the hate for PI is a massive overreaction due to streamers. Theres a reason Astrologian does perfectly fine in FFXIV but priest is constantly nagged. Its the playerbase not the ability.

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You are so off the mark it’s borderline bait.

Astrologian in XIV was built around it’s play style, priest isn’t. It’s not something you just slap into a pre existing class and call it a day. It’s not possible to do a 1:1 comparison between both games either

Trying to dismiss criticism to “it’s just THEM that hate it” doesn’t prove nor do anything, except create useless discord.

It was said before and will be said again; most are not inherently against support type spec, but priests were not built with it in mind to begin with so it’s causing more issues than anything