Feedback on the Dungeon difficulty rework

I feel like this revamp was awful for a decent chunk of the player base. There were lots of players that did only +2 through +10 keys, got a little loot, came away happy but now there’s nothing for them. 0’s and 2’s are too hard but Heroics are too easy. They’re stuck either in limbo or they still try to queue for 0’s and 2’s. But it’s pretty obvious that they’re in wayyyyy over their head in even 0’s. Why take away these “starter mythic plus” dungeons from these people?

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But people were always complaining that there were never any groups for those ranges before. :man_shrugging:t5:

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To my knowledge these changes were specifically for that target audience.

They wanted the difficulty of +2-10 without the timer or affixes.

That’s what m0 is now.

World events + heroic dungeons should get you to ~480. If you are trying m0 before 480 then you are skipping steps.

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I ran two zeros last night, it wasn’t bad. But it is much harder, you can’t just go in and face roll the place anymore, and that’s a good thing.

You must do mechanics, zeros are like an old 10 with no affixes. You are going to die, until you get an even bigger health pool.

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This is incorrect. There were some, but definitely not a significant portion of characters. Which is largely why it was removed.

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I tried doing those low keys on an alt last season and it was so painful. People just had no idea what they were doing. But I saw plenty in the group finder.

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So go do heroics then. M0’s difficulty is being way overstated in the OP. If you can’t complete the content you don’t deserve the reward, stop expecting freebies and carries from superior players.

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I always saw groups for that key range. And they were easy to get into. Plus, I know a lot of guilds and friend groups who ran them and didn’t pug.

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The 0-15 key range has been a giant problem for the last couple seasons, so nice to finally see something get done about it.

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If you were doing 2s before, heroics are the alternative. Heroics award 476 gear, which was gear I was using in 18-20s last season. LFR awards 480 gear which is almost mythic level from last season. 0s are also awarding good gear, they can only be done once a week but you have a potential additional chance to get loot per boss, and they have no timer or affixes.

People need to not have an ego about +2s of all things and just do heroics now if that is the range they were doing. If anything you’re kinda getting more for less. Getting that gear will put you up to being able to do 0s and the new +2s.

and those are the same people currently complaining about things being “overtuned”.

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Honestly there are a couple bosses I think could use a slight nerf, but I did up to an 8 on some keys this week and it wasn’t THAT bad. I think I can do 10s with more gear.

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It is definitely an expectation problem.

Unlike last season 0s reward Champion track gear every boss and hero track gear in the vault.

So yes, they are harder, but that is because their position in the gear chain has been moved from the bottom to the middle.

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Heroics are braindead. It’s easier than Timewalking dungeons. My guild used to run 10s and 12s. That was about our ceiling.

People seem to be misunderstanding something here: we enjoyed doing the keys we could do, with timers and affixes. Now we’re relegated to what feels like a Normal dungeon faceroll or only M0 with still no timer and just a permanent Fortified and no ability to re-run them or continue learning them.

We went from being able to be part of the M+ scene with scores, to being left out and no scores to strive for.

I get they wanted to make Heroic and M0 “meaningful.” But Heroic is a joke and M0 is tuned so high that the gap from joke to difficult is very wide.

Y’all that run higher keys have no perspective of where we’re coming from.

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Why is it completely out of the question that you just get a tad bit better at the game and you could be running +2’s to your heart’s content?

M0’s tuning is not a problem at all, just accept that you and your team is going to suffer some wipes while you’re learning things.

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Guess you’re just gonna have to gear up a bit before you jump into the harder content. What a shame.

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Because that’s not how life works for everyone, including the older crowd and people with disabilities.

Everyone has a ceiling. Yours is higher. That’s fine. My Rheumatoid Arthritis and skill level hit its ceiling with the group I play with, because of the group I play with.

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The chasm that is Heroic to M0 isn’t cute.

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I ran some +2 tonight and it was a little bit rough. I had a lot of trouble getting into groups and once the key started people had very little patience for wipes. The tanks were bouncing very quickly after a couple wipes. Seems people tolerance level is very low at the moment. There were a lot of mechanical errors as well.

I’m just trying to build some IO rating and maybe get some gear drops. My paladin was sitting at 477 and I’m thinking people want higher ilvl before taking you. I could swap out some pieces but the problem is that I would lose the tier bonus by doing it. It shouldn’t be a problem though because I’m still topping the damage chart over people that have higher ilvl than me. I think people are just being super picky.

We did have people that were performing badly missing mechanics and their damage output wasn’t what you would expect from their listed ilvl.

The difficulty gap between heroics and m0 is way too big.

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