Feedback: Mythic+

Community General Discussion
308

Feedback for M+s:

  • remove this time limit push,
  • get rid of keys that get lowered/expended
  • keep the affixes and let them keep scaling up.

I like the challenge of the affixes getting harder and harder, but i have always despised this rush to the end. You add in the blown keys and its just not enjoyable - even a bit cancerous imo.

Idea (spit ballin’ here!):
It would basically be like taking M0and letting us set the levels we want to run. You can add the affixes tiers when we change the level, and letting them ramp up like they currently do. We just don’t have to deal with being pushed by timers, and you can do this with any dungeon - you don’t have to have a key for it. Loot dropped per boss, but can be a bit lower in ilvl than an M+ timed run. I’m fine with no weekly rewards if all i do is non-timed M’s. That can be a benefit of doing the timed runs, but still give us the tokens to eventually be able to get upgraded gear pieces with. It might take us a bit longer, but I think alot of people would gladly make that trade to get away from the rush, rush, rush mentality.

1 Like
309

Being able to shadow meld reaping mobs is easy. If a team doesn’t defeat them, they should auto aggro to the team. Otherwise this is an exploit as it is not fair to other races.

310

Reaping mobs have to be able to see through all forms of stealth otherwise Night Elf players will be able to negate this mechanic with shadow meld

1 Like
311

How to improve M+

  1. Ban shroud from M+ have people actually do the content rather then skipping it

  2. Class balance right now the Meta is so tight it’s hard for most players who are not a DH, rogue, Druid, frost mage, and blood Dk. To many classes/spec bring nothing compared to others like why would anyone bring a mdps who isn’t a rogue or DH same for range as boomies and mages have the spot on lock and ofc blood dks own the tank spot…

Content isn’t fun when your told you can’t play because your class “just isn’t good enough”

6 Likes
312

I still do keys, but I don’t find them much fun anymore and I have not attempted to push in months. I want to enjoy them which is why I am writing this post.

There remains a lot of problems with M+ right now and honestly I don’t see the point in going through them all. Getting M+ back to legion level of fun in a reasonable amount of time seams insurmountable at this point. So maybe instead address the few remaining big outliers plus throw us a bone or two, make what we have tolerable while you rethink M+ philosophy for next expansion?

Throwing us a Bone

  • Give us a way to reroll keys even if its limited / high cost. (this alone would make this expansion semi barrable).

  • Increase weekly chest to 385.

  • Change invis pot so 10 min cd does not lock us out of dps potion.

  • Better Incentive structure beyond ilvl example time 3 different 15+ dungeon keys for a choice between two pieces of loot in weekly chest.

  • Give alliance access to horde Siege dungeon for M+.

Affixes

  • Reduce the effects of fortified.

  • Increase the explosion cast time for explosives and introduce a cap on number that can spawn at once.

  • Reduce the effects of bolstering and reduce the range at which mobs bolster.

  • Introduce a delay between when grievous is removed and when it can be reapplied.

  • Reduce Sanguine size for low hp mobs.

Remaining Larger Dungeon Issues

Shrine

  • Double the mob value of the three mini bosses (Windspeaker Heldis, Runecarver Sorn and Guardian Elemental) to reduce this dungeons dependency on specific classes for skips.

  • Reduce the amount of time it takes to kill the last boss significantly! Less hp, damage increase taken debuff after shield broken, more uptime on boss and less in add phase etc.

Siege

  • Last boss reduce the number of demolisher tentacles spawning on each platform (its currently 5) and reduce the HP of the first demolisher tenticle on the final platform.

Temple

  • Reduce AOE damage of third boss.

Kings Rest

  • Reduce the damage of 1st boss ability ‘spit gold’.

  • Reduce the damage of 3rd boss Kula the Butchers ‘Severing Axe’ ability (this is the dot not the axes that fly around).

  • Reduce the HP of 3rd boss.

  • Reduce the damage of last boss ability ‘Blade Combo’.

  • Modify Spectral Berserker mob ‘Severing Blade’ to refresh rather than stack on reapplication.

If you take anything from this Kings Rest feedback please look at the first two points here. They have been brought up constantly here on the forums, on streams, in guides on 3rd party websites etc. These two abilities are busted, we don’t care about analytics or grand visions for M+, just believe in the community for once that these two abilities are doing too much damage.

I am committed to tanking next tier for guild. If this is as good as M+ gets for this expansion I am done after that. Too many friends have left or are leaving and M+ isn’t good enough to keep me here. I just want to log in, chill and have some fun with M+. Fix that and you will have a subscriber for years to come.

3 Likes
313

This is spot on. You should never be raiding for linear gear. I would even go as far as to say, “only give +5 iLvL as rewards.” If a m5 requires 350 iLvL it should reward at least iLvL 355.

1 Like
314

People might say i’m soft for this but I feel like making tyrannical and fortified the first affix just screwed alot of casual groups up. in legion it was cool if you wanted to farm keys and stay low, and those who wanted to go all in could…and they did. But now it’s like I gotta give my social, have rapunsel start making gold weaves, and all that just to get into a +5. Like it’s ridiculous.

MDI ain’t really that cool. It used to seem cool to me, but why am I gonna watch something I can’t even try to relate to because since it’s such a job to get my foot in the door that it’s easier to just say whatever?

Hopefully that makes sense. I am not talking about rewards or anything, and I’m not suggesting nerfing, or taking away from hardcore groups. In my view, it wouldn’t even involve them if the lower keys were still as pug friendly and enjoyable as they were in Legion.

2 Likes
315

Yep, I leveled up an alt and was trying to do some lower keys in the +5 range and every single one fell apart. Even with me coaching on mechanics and pulls. Maybe the groups I were in were the exception, maybe not. What I can tell you is the dungeons in BfA are significantly less forgiving than in Legion.

In Legion I would Pug 10’s all day. It was actually fun. If none of my buddies were around or I was home sick for the day I would just farm 10’s on my toon. Did runs fall apart? Of course, on occasion. But nothing like the rate they do in BfA.

In my opinion, a change should be reverted to move tyran/fort back to +10, and bump the seasonal affix +5 levels above that, and have it offer a small extra reward, like +5 or +10 ilvls on gear. So they would now drop +375 or 380 base, or something like that.

This would make lower keys much more forgiving, make 10’s less daunting for all the people that aren’t into pushing keys, and give incentive to those that want to push, and rewarding them for doing so.

Right now it’s just backwards, there’s a ton of over-engineered trash, affixes that start at +2, and it’s just pushing people away.

Also, it would be great if there was a way to re-roll keys. It was so refreshing to at the start of the expansion. Say you got a group together and someone had a high key, but you didn’t do a high key last week because you were out of town for most of the week so you only got a +10 done. So now you do a +14 with your buddies and and the keys turns into a dead key, and everyone else’s keys are for dungeons with bad affix combo’s. Well, your key is so low that you now need to spend 30+ mins trying to bump the key up to the level where it’s challenging. That’s stupid, especially considering we all don’t have a lot of time to play. And I know when I have an hour two to play I don’t want to spend 2/3rds of it bumping my key up, so instead I just go play something else.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard my friends/guildies say, well dead key this week, I’m going to go play something else. Laters…

On the flipside, how it was before was great. Jump in, get into a group with your buddies, and be able to re-roll/bump up your key after putting in the effort to complete a higher dungeon… I still think this change was terrible for the player experience. Especially considering some dungeons are just daunting, unfun, and over tuned (looking at you, King’s Rest…cringe).

2 Likes
316

The Titan Residuum concept should apply to all gear slots. The weekly chest was just horrible for casuals and I had lots of guildies get really discouraged getting the same piece for … a month! Even on my main, I got nearly half my gear at the end of the season doing non-m+ catchup mechanics. Pretty silly.

And noted a LOT of people left after a couple of months. They didn’t feel progression even though we were successfully running keys. Just have a system where there is a light at the end of the tunnel and people will earn their gear. Luck is just too dominant in the system right now.

2 Likes
317

Dear Blizzard Entertainment, I just did 8+ motherlode and gotten ZERO loot, plz

you are losing a lot of people, make it feel more rewarding maybe more azerite,

OR even better make the mythic plus weekly cache become like heroes of the

storm chests, and make the seal of wartorn fate a currency which you can buy

with real money or something with no cap. I agree with Quintessence luck is WAY

to dominant in the system right now and lots of people are leaving

1 Like
318

RNG in game has been god awful since Legion. (months of farming destro hidden artifact every day and still never got it and gave up)

BFA doubled down on the system and ratehr than assume you will get a usable item you expect azerite and nothing else. (this is sad)

an RPG (which WoW is) shouldnt be THIS random with loot.
If you go time and time again w/o any reward you get frustrated.

Even Diablo series (which was RNG since day one from the beginning of series) at least tosses random loot at you. (be it actual gear or crafting mats)

D3 actually did take it a bit further with bloodshards to gamble with (this was RNG if u got naythign good, but at least you felt like you had a reward).

titan residuum or w/e is a step in right direction (i mean vendor items USE to be in WoW and ppl liked that option even), but the rate at which you get that is ALSO up to RNG (did enemy drop an azerite item to scrap for it? no? well enjoy havign wasted your time and have this miniscule less than .5% of an azerite lvl in azerite instead).

RPG games are about item drops. WoW lately is being extremely lacking in this for many players lately.

P.S. for a fun bit of info this warlock is my main. Most played time of any x-pac. most dungeons, WQ, etc. She JUST recently upgraded her weapon from a 340. (and a 30ilvl upgrade at that)

I run 3 alts (a druid, pally, and DH) for skinning and mining/herbing/bs/lw and other stuff. They all get a fraction of the play time as her…they both(excludign pally as i stopped doing stuff for gear and used just professions) beat her ilvl until recently…heck my 4th 120 surpassed all of the characters ilvl fast.

dh just got drop after drop. You know how this made me feel having a lesser used and liked alt get the stuff I would of liked on main? extremely frustrated and annoyed.

making stuff more RNG doesnt make a game feel longer. it makes you feel frustrated for longer and actually lessens your desire to do content when you know 9 out of 10 tiems your wasting your time.

2 Likes
319

You would have to do serious re balancing on some dungeons. Shroud and other skip methods are sometimes the ONLY WAY to even attempt to two chest a dungeon.

320

a lot of good points here. At least give reaping trash true sight at a min. Dungeons and M+ in bfa is mainly about cheese at this point. So much of the trash isn’t reasonable on certain affixs and has to be skipped to time a high level key. There are major issues with certain affix’s and BFA. Last boss in shrine, why should his spawns cause explosive? The orbs can go off before a player can even run to where they spawn… and then the team wipes…

1 Like
321

this game, i did 8+ motherlode overtime and got ZERO LOOT! OMG Blizzard,

1 Like
322

I don’t understand why M+ boxes don’t give gold like they used to. You need flasks, pots and food to push keys. It should at least give enough to offset repair costs. 200 ap and 0 gold for a 30 minute dungeon run sucks

2 Likes
323

Please make the master mind MOB in MOUTHERLODE, a pushable mob or a interrupt mob bbecause a range mob that cant be pushed, cant be interupted is kind of TOXIC.

5 Likes
324

The WarMachines in MOTHERLODE!! poop out bombs and those bombs bolster the WarMachine… it was unanimous in our group that this is, in fact, lame.

3 Likes
325

Why did you people gut dps warrior utility? makes 0 sense

Windwalker monks, havoc demonhunters, and rogues have been the meta for TOO LONG

Only half the classes in the game can even comfortably push keys.
Terrible game design, and I just know you guys aren’t going to do anything about it this entire expansion.
Demon Hunters are an absolute JOKE with their utility and damage compared to other classes. So I ask again. WHY did you guys GUT half the classes of utility and leave the rest alone!? MAKES 0 SENSE

GIVE DPS WARRIOR BACK SHOCKWAVE

3 Likes
326

I honestly dont care for the new BFA style M+ system. not because i feel that the content itself is hard, but because its just impossible for me to go over a level 6 key without running into people that have no clue what they are doing. Which is forcing me into using 3rd party addons.

This is the Gear score problem from WotLK all over again imo. I have no issue at all with helping or teaching people what to do. what mobs are dangerous and what-naught. but trying to do that on the fly, in the middle of a super buffed up timed dungeon with no simple way to communicate is impossible and just asking for trouble. I dont have a solution to this problem off of the top of my head frankly but its a major flaw in the system that is one of the reasons i dont even bother to try and run this piece of content that i use to have a ton of fun with before everyone i knew quit the game. That is sadly the only real feedback i can give.

1 Like
327

Hey guys! Now that season 2 is live I’m going to be locking this thread to preserve its information within season 1.
Thanks everyone for the large amount of feedback on this across so many levels of players that participate in Mythic+.

Next steps on a post like this is for me to go through all of these posts and compile them into something that I can send over to the Development Team. This takes us a few days to get it ready and send it over and we’ll discuss as a team some of the points you guys have brought up as well as how certain aspects of M+ feel. You might see some of the points we aggregate from this post in future discussions with you guys as we talk about M+. If I know of any changes that directly result from this information I will do my best to let you guys know.

Thank you again for all of the feedback you’ve provided with us here on Mythic+. I hope you all enjoy Season 2 with the new affix Reaping, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it.

1 Like