Feedback: Mythic+

[Metrohaha-firetree (Metrohaha)]

Only complaints with Mythic+ is how we allow people to leave with no punishment of any sort. No other content in the game can not be refilled or restarted, and leavers have become an increasing problem with RaiderIO dominating the incentive structures and them refusing to add proper incentive for completing keys alongside upgrading keys.

I’m not sure how to fix this, but I find it really causes problems when you have a key that is particularly hard a certain week especially.

My first inclination is to say something like make it so keys don’t downgrade if some one leaves. Not sure if that is even possible to do, but either way, its quite frustrating to get half way through a dungeon, have some one leave, then have to do the exact same dungeon on a level lower.

Maybe the better option is to allow for some sort of reroll feature for keys?

I’d much rather there be some protection from leavers for my keystone, because at this point it feels like doing my own key is basically pointless depending what I get.

[Varrow-sargeras (Varrow)]

Maybe the better option is to allow for some sort of reroll feature for keys?

I’d like to see ways to upgrade, downgrade, and reroll keys (even if it cost a currency to do so)

[Hidingcoffee-area-52]

My main is a 1700 Rio mage and i play 4 other classes at about a 1k score. So I’m obviously not insane at m+ but i dont think i can be considered terrible either.

First thing i notice about these dungeons. They take way more coordination to run smoothly. This is both a good thing and a bad thing. Its good if u have a set group but bad if u like to pug. I personally mostly run with guildies so i like that the dungeons are harder and require more coordination. on a side note most of these new requirement’s for comms could just come from the ghuun affix which i think is awful and just plain not fun to play around. Once its gone i think it should make m+ a lot more enjoyable as a whole.

The other main issue i have is just imbalance of the affix’s. id prefer the lesser affix’s (volcanic, tyranical + teeming, raging,) to be brought up in difficulty or the hard affix’s (necrotic, bolstering, fort + teeming) be brought down. It just feels like theres to much of a gap between the difficulty of different combos.

Bolster is just not fun. None elites shouldn’t bolster elites. these pack type’s of mini boss surrounded by small adds happens way to often. The 2 big dungeons for this are siege and shrine but there’s plenty of examples all over the place

Sanguine is the same but not as bad. I think there should be a cap on sanguine. Once it heals enough the puddle “depletes” so it can punish u a bit for miss playing but it doesn’t full heal 10 mobs cause one died at the wrong time.

Explosive is a fun mechanic i feel. Its just random. A lot of people say get rid of it but i feel its challenging and requires coordination so i like it. i just dont think it should spawn randomly. It should be on a timer like quaking so u can anticipate when you’ll have to deal with orbs.

Teeming should be the third affix to go along with fort and tyrannical. i think it changes how u pull the dungeon and thats basically how this teir of affix’s is suppose to work.

Fort, is just overturned compared to tyrannical, but tyrannical is less fun imo because its very stressful doing a 3-4 min dungeon boss were one mistake can wipe the whole group and scuff the key. Tyranical is probley fine at the end of the day. Fort obviously needs some tuning imo.

The only other thing i can mention is how poor i think class balance has been. having a rogue with shroud can be good. Frost mage with Roots on ghuuns / none elites who run is very important as well as slows. with this utility rogues and mages are also top on damage and i feel it create somewhat of a monopoly on the classes the community find are good. At the end of the day most classes are viable (other then enhance, feral, spriest) and u can make it work. Its just much harder without Brez’ rogue shroud and mage control.

Edit - I forgot to mention one thing. Specifically 2 dungeons, King’s rest and Temple, we can’t avoid going over the trash requirement’s of the key without using either invis pots or a rogue shroud. I think this is poor design. Some dungeons are open like Atal and freehold so its nice to be able to have different routes and pulls and skips to get good % and fast times. I think all dungeons should be open like these 2 are. Designed in such a way that u have multiple routes and options on how to pull the key.

I can see why u might want to have some dungeons that have fixed paths and if thats the case, fine but I just dont think u should HAVE to use some kind of skip to avoid over pulling the trash in the dungeon.

[Metrohaha-firetree (Metrohaha)]

Same for sure. That’s something I’d love to see above all else honestly. A currency from completing the keys would be a good way to add extra incentive to complete keys, and then you can use that currency to reroll the key or maybe even upgrade it?

It just sucks to have to do a 14 of a key I don’t want just to try to get back to 15 or 16 after some one leaves. The dungeons themselves are amazing, its just the keystone system I have troubles with.

[Tablez-bleeding-hollow]

The dungeons I would like to touch on are Kings Rest, Shrine of the Storm, and Waycrest Manor. The affixes I think need touched up still is Sanguine, Teeming *specifically with fortified, and explosive.

Personally I think the amount of kicks required for Shrine of the Storm is significantly too high. It basically pigeon holes certain comps on higher keys or else it isnt completable. The final bosses hp is also a bit high, but thats doable if the kick requirement was also pretty strained. I think a change to make the bosses HP lower, and kicks lasting for longer on the adds on the final boss and on the 2nd boss it would be a significantly less painful dungeon. Its a cool dungeon by design, but in practice it feels like pulling teeth.

I think the percentage required on Waycrest Manor is about 5% too high. You basically always have to go out of your way to pull extra to get proper percentage, which seems weird compared to every other dungeon. Also sanguine on this dungeon in particular is a nightmare.

Kings Rest also feels like it just needs a longer timer. No matter how quick you go on that dungeon it just always feels extremely close due to the RP, long boss fights, long trash fights, and sheer running in that dungeon. Either HP needs to go down (im fine with their damage staying super high), or RP times need shortened in some way.

My only complaint with affixes as a whole is explosive still seems way harder than other affixes, and teeming on weeks with fortified is pretty awful. This makes the teeming explosive fortified week basically a vacation from wow for a whole week for anyone who likes to try and push keys. Explosive I think is at the point where I would almost prefer it be completely reworked.

[Soursdk-illidan (Soursdk)]

Before I get started I would like to say that if you haven’t read Jason’s (Zqs) post on Season 1 Mythic+ I would highly recommend it. Mythic Keystones: Season 1 in Review

As a whole this expansion, trash is much more tedious than in Legion. Last expansion one players cooldowns was all it took to mow a single pack down and this expansion every pull takes 30-40+ seconds, this problem is only amplified on Fortified weeks which adds an absolutely absurd amount of overall required damage for a dungeon, especially when compared with tyrannical. In addition to the increased time to kill relative to last expansion trash as a whole is significantly more dangerous. I would love to see game wide trash health, meele damage and spell damage nerfs no matter how small. Minibosses in particular in dungeons just have way to much health. The 3 back to back Minibosses in Shrine of the Storm are a prime example of how out of wack trash health scaling gets (especially with fortified).

Player power is an important factor behind player enjoyment in World of Warcraft, whether that be in the form of damage output, or ability to handle damage input. There has been a lot of talk recently about Community Perception of classes this expansion and when player power as a whole feels significantly weaker than last expansion in dungeons it becomes a lot easier to fixate on the negative as opposed to looking towards the positive. There are any number of tuning knobs that can be played with to adjust throughput for various classes and specs, but the hardest knob to tune that has massive impacts in Mythic+ is the utility that a class provides. The utility that some classes and specs bring are core parts of that spec or classes identity, however many classes are still left wondering what their identity should be in a 5 man dungeon setting besides a guy who punches things. Some unique utility is significantly more powerful when you look at it along side the rest of the toolkit that those classes provide in dungeons, be it through their damage, or healing.

Some notable utility outliers are:

Shroud of Concealment, a 6 minute cooldown that can save 3+ minutes easily each use depending on dungeon. Without adding truesight to nearly every dungeon similar to what was done for matrons in The Underrot more absurd time saves are only just waiting to be discovered, tested and implemented in keystone runs. With all of that being said Shroud is not mandatory for the completion of dungeons, however, no other class utility does what shroud does in a dungeon no other class can claim that they can ever hope to save as much time in a dungeon in the way that Shroud can. <Insert link to the Mythic+ in 8.2 Wowhead shroud skip section here>. Perhaps consider reducing the cooldown on invisibility potions to match? Or remove the restriction on other potions following the usage of an invisibility potion by putting them on a separate cooldown that normal potions. If there was a way to use professions as way to get around your group not having a shroud that would be an absolutely fantastic change. Perhaps a tailoring item that acts as a group wide invisibility cloak? You can get around not having a lust with leatherworking even if you don’t have a leatherworker in your group, so having a way to get around shroud would be something that I would love to see in a patch note one day.

Force of Nature, a 1 minute cooldown that completely transforms what is possible to be pulled by a tank no matter that weeks affixes. Force of Nature is also significantly more powerful than Earth Elemental, a 5 minute cooldown that dies in the same amount of time, or even faster than the 3 Treants summoned from Force of Nature, even though these cooldowns do effectively the same thing. Shamans may bring the best kick in the entire game, but it doesn’t make up for how underwhelming this elemental is.

Gorefiend’s Grasp, the best way to do damage to creatures is to gather them all in one place. Gorefiends grasp has a radius of 15 yards (176.71 square yards), the next best ability is Sigil of Chains which has a radius of only 8 yards (50.27 square yards). Luckily other tanks are extremely viable this expansion so there isn’t a DK only meta. If the tank balance this expansion wasn’t as good as it is currently then the impact of this spell in dungeons would be significantly amplified especially considering how many archers/gunmen/casters there are in BFA dungeons. +1 on tank balance, its actually really good right now.

Affixes:
I could go on and on here about the worst affixes to deal with, and why I dislike playing into them but instead I’ll leave this short and sweet. There is no week of Mythic+ Affixes that I get excited about logging into to experience in any given dungeon. There are only affixes that I either dread going into, or ones that do absolutely nothing to change how you do the dungeons that I don’t even notice at all.

I would love to see more timer tweaks and trash and bosses unchanged, or trash and boss tweaks and timers left unchanged. This is something that needs to be looked at and addressed by dungeon, especially if the keystone acquisition systems stays as it is.

The final note I would like to leave is, please please please do not overtune the 8.2 MEGADUNGEON in such a way that it needs multiple massive targeted nerfs upon release to be timeable like were needed when CoS, Arcway, Cathedral, Upper and Lower Karazhan, and Seat of the Trumpet needed when they were added to the game.

[Stormherald-khazgoroth (Stormherald)]

Would have thought watching the mythic world champs and every tank being a blood dk would have told you enough data.

[Kanny-stormrage]

Affixes:

• Explosive removed, not fun to play
  -Bolstering, non elites and elites should not bolster each other
  -Sanguine puddles made smaller and heal for less
  -Quaking damage only procs in combat, and damage to tanks lowered

Dungeons:
-Shrine last boss hp need to be nerfed
-Shrine minibosses hp need to be nerfed
-KR 1st boss spit gold damage need to be nerfed
-KR 3rd boss axe debuff need to be shorter
-KR Zul’s damage needs to be nerfed
-KR needs additional timer maybe add 3 min to it, it’s currently the most unforgiving dungeon
-AP reward needs to be buffed

Classes:
Utility between classes needs to be revised. currently DHs and Rogues have no reason to ever be replaced, they have no weaknesses, both do amazing single target and aoe dps with the best utility tools in the game cooped with outstanding survivability and mobility. Why would you ever pick a warrior instead of one of these melee classes? they bring absolutely nothing to a M+ team.

[Mograíne-sargeras]

Hey blizzard, i just want to say I’ve had a descent amount of fun with m+, but there are quite a few things that need to address,

Shrine:
Last boss: You took out the ability to put the debuff on the dps, making the last fight take astronomically longer to kill. I think that if you are to keep this change, you need to subsidize this massive nerf by increasing the overall timer of shrine or like you posted earlier, reduce the hp of the boss. The timer of Shrine was already super tight, and the nerf to dps on the last boss made it even tighter.
Waycrest:
The biggest issue is the difficulty discrepancy among the routes you get in this dungeon. Top left, top right, and bottom right. Top left is almost always wanted as you get to find out early in the dungeon whether or not you can even kill the triad boss, but you also get easier infest and much less trash you have to clear as opposed to the other routes. Top right is dreaded on almost every week, you have to clear way more trash, its very awkward with sanguine or bolster, and just makes groups moan when they could’ve gotton top left and had an easier time in the dungeon. I personally think Top left should always be the chosen path, and to get away of this RNG pathing system that is plaguing waycrest runs.
Lord Waycrest/Goliath bosses could use some damage reduction, as they seemingly do way too much damage to the tank,and the fire of the tree boss could use a nerf so the tank and a taunt class dont have to play pinball just to kill goliath on high keys
Freehold: Eudora and the First boss need some kind of damage reduction on tyrannical. The first boss 1 shotting dps on higher keys through stam flask,vers food, and 2x/3x resounding protection is really frustrating, also considering a dps can get poision puddle into a pistol shot and die. Eudora same thing, someone getting 3 pistol shots in a row can just get obliterated, and with 40% tyran hp, you are certain to not have the CDs to handle multiple 3 shot in a row cast from Eudora. Also I would like to add,i noticed on the teeming week that just passed, you gave the turtle boss 1.28%. I thing it should be upped to 3% or maybe even 4% considering he has 4mil hp/5mil hp on a fortified equivalent key.
Kings Rest:
Last Boss:The combo cleave the last boss does for me as a blood dk is absolutely insane, saving 90rp in preperation for a slash that hits 4 times and just decimates me. I found that when i parry atleast 2 of the 4 slashes, the boss is doable for me, but relying on parry is not exactly fun gameplay.
Beserker adds: The bleed damage might need another 10% nerf or more, but i think the interneal cooldown between them stacking the debuff should also be addressed. There are plenty of double beserker packs in a teeming kings rest, that just keep stacking the debuff on the tank unless he kites, but if the tank is kiting it just tightens the timer on kings rest ( probably ranked with shrine as one of the harder dungeons).
Siege (Alliance):
The difficulty discrepancy between alliance and horde siege variants is laughable. The horde dont have to deal with dogs that shred dps, bomberman that straight burn through CDs, and get to farm neutral adds for a safe 15-20% of the dungeon forces. I think maybe the alliance should get the same siege variant as the horde just to level the playing field for this dungeon.
Affixes:
I really do think Blizzard should evaluate some affixe weeks. For example
Teeming fortified explosive
Teeming fortified quaking
Bolster explosive tyrannical
bolster grevious tyrannical
These weeks easily have the lowest m+ participation among other weeks especially when you compare it with
Bursting skittish tyrannical
raging volcannic tyrannical
teeming volcannic tyrannical
Which easily have the world’s highest keys being made and generally have higher m+ participation. I truly believe that affixes that slow down the key such as bolster or explosive should be borderline removed from the game, as the only real counter to these affixes is to pull 4 mobs at a time, when in reality, at 18+ level keys you need to be pulling waaaay more mobs, especially in waycrest or motherlode which everyone dreads doing during those affixes. I also think you guys should consider just having easy affixes for the live service of the game, and keep the hard affixes like explosive/bolster for MDI as a show of skill and overcoming these affixes. I just do not feel having these difficult unfun affixes are healthy for the game. It just feels like when these dreaded affix weeks come around, i just cap on the highest key i can then AFK for the rest of the week, which is unheard of when considering other aspects of the game like pvp or raiding. Imainge not being able to play the game for a week, or more, because affixes that just arent fun allign.

[Pulsated-emerald-dream]

King’s Rest - This dungeon is still awful on so many affixes. The timer is tight, the trash is abusive, and its compounded by how many affixes make it even worse. This entire dungeon is awful and getting a key for it ruins your week as a M+ player.

Shrine of the Storm: This timer could stand to be extended by about 3 minutes, and the last boss needs a compensation nerf on his health, or longer time between the later phase transitions. I’m greatly appreciative of the tornado visuals on the 2nd boss, but feel she casts just a tough too frequently. I would suggest increasing her cast time.

Siege of Boralus: Idc really, I just take a spotter and nuke the tentacles on the last boss. Everything else in this place seems pretty easy as a DPS.

Atal’Dazar: Could stand to use a very slight HP nerf on Yazma for Tyrannical weeks. However, this is one of the easier dungeons so I don’t know that it is necessary (but my opinion is probably skewed as I play a Rogue and can just cloak her spiders).

Freehold: The shark boss is no longer aids, but apparently half the population can no longer do the 2nd boss well. I wouldn’t change anything in here though, the dungeon has a forgiving timer and is pretty well tuned.

Waycrest Manor: The Triad are significantly easier in here. The only thing this dungeon really suffers from is certain affixes that will never be balanced in here. This used to be offset by key deletion, but now this place just feels like cancer on some weeks and free on others.

Temple of Sethralis: I ran some lower keys in here, the last boss is much better. Since the fix to the first boss cyclone strike, this place is pretty well balanced. My only complaint can’t even be fixed though, the eye room is just annoying AF (imo). I stay away from here mostly.

The Underrot: Never had an issue with this place aside from the first boss. That was fixed, but the Matron’s were given true sight. This seemed like a poorly thought out change, those adds were skipped for a reason.

To touch on another aspect of M+ though: Tyrannical vs Fortified. These affixes are severely out of balance with how much trash, and how dangerous trash can be in the BfA dungeons. The percentages of Fortified really should be brought in line with Tyrannical so we can all enjoy M+ every week instead of half the scene dropping out on Fort affix. Finding groups is a chore on Fort week, and then chesting is a whole nother story. A group of DPS average 17k-20k overall shouldn’t be pushing a timer close in a 14 key just because the trash is so absurdly overtuned.

And lastly: Key Deletion. I didn’t play Legion, so I don’t know how it was then, but I do know how it was when I got into M+ in BFA. Not being able to reroll your key feels awful. Please implement something similar, rolling a King’s Rest 15 straight out of your chest makes me want to stop playing for the week.

[Sladdi-earthen-ring (Sladdi)]

why not 3 items in your loot, azerite item weapon and random armour? I mean its what the majority of the community thought was coming in the first place. You know how bad it feels to open your chest and go, yay something for the scrapper? well it could be “yay 3 items for the scrapper” that’s MORE positive!

i mean with this kind of RNG yes you’ll also have some guy open his chest first week and get 3 BIS items, but that’s RNG. Or an up to 3 which i think is more accurate to what we were expecting, but you know this one item and its not something important like azerite armour is kinda feeling a bit weak. Not that removing it and replacing a currency is bad, it might be better depending on the scaling of how fast to get a TARGETED peice, you know that item you wanted. But atm i hope that currency is improved season 2 onward. Not feeling 2 month grind for a BIS slot.

[Taree-khadgar (Taree)]

I’m an average mythic+ healer. My perspective comes from that place.

Please look at the affixes again. Quaking should not occur out of combat and should be smaller, like volcanic. Allow grievous to drop out of combat like necrotic OR make it so it affects all healers equally. In fact, if I had my druthers, I’d delete grievous and call it a day. When mobs are affected by teeming, please adjust what is added – some teeming pulls are beyond frustrating (Shrine bridge, for example).

As well, the way some of the bosses interact with affixes is silly. Grievous and Waycrest is frustrating. Volcanic and the final boss in Underrot is silly (can’t remember explosive for that guy). Explosive and the final boss in Temple is frustrating. Etc…

Please address the meta. When I run with a meta group, I feel like I’ve found a god-mode cheat code. For example, give invisibility pots the same CD as shroud + 1 min and disconnect it from all other pots OR make shroud put all pots on a CD within the group.

Please give us a way to re-roll keys. I’ve gotten Shrine and King’s Rest so many times, it’s comical. One week, my main and 2 of my alts had King’s Rest. I’d use the azerite gear currency to dump a key.

Please give us some duplicate protection with keys. I had some guildies kind enough to run my Shrine 10 one week so I could get a new key. We failed the timer, and I got Shrine 9. For heaven’s sake, please fix this. That was seriously deflating. Make it so that a key can’t degrade or upgrade into the same dungeon.

Please thin the trash. Honestly, working through 10 or 12 packs of trash to get to the first boss in Motherlode is tedious. Looking back, Halls of Valor had a grand total of 3 trash packs between the entrance and the first boss. Maybe that’s too few, but some of these dungeons are just too overloaded with trash, and it becomes an exercise in extreme tedium.

Please give every healer the ability to remove poison, or stop making places like King’s Rest. The trash after the first boss is miserable without the ability to remove poison. I don’t care how short the duration is – give me the ability to remove it. Or, make the abilities that put the poison out there interruptible, just like you make the disease debuff in Underrot interruptible. I don’t care which one; just make it less miserable.

Please give every healer the ability to CC and interrupt. We had it at one time. Please give it back.

Line of sight healing issues occur far too often. We were joking that the bushes in Seige the other night kept me from seeing the tank. Is this really necessary? I mean, the boss can hit me with her debuff if I’m behind a rock. Let me heal the tank if he’s behind the same rock.

And some of the boss fights are pure tedium. The totem boss in Atal’Dazar is beyond frustrating with the movement punishment. The first boss in King’s Rest is a melee unfriendly. The second boss in Shrine is way too comp sensitive.

Quite honestly, the one word I’d use to describe BFA mythic+ against Legion mythic+ is TEDIOUS. The dungeons turn into a slog. I get that we are somewhat away from magical boss one-shot abilities (well, at the key levels I do), but goodness we don’t need this much trash.

I want to enjoy mythic+ again, truly.

[Dequan-malganis]

They dont spawn until you touch the gripping. If u kill the last demolisher without touching the gripping u can easily zerg the gripping afterwards

[Dequan-malganis]

Motherlode. On the hill to the last boss the mines give bolstering no matter what. If you kill them or if you dont. We used to be able to let them explode and no bolstering stacks happened.

The reason this is an issue is because some of the machines spawn bombs underneath themselves and we cannot do anything about it.

I havent run motherlode yet this week but id imagine theyre gonna drop sanguine pools also… if thats the case im gonna have sanguine pools literally spawning underneath the mob (a mob thats not always easy to move)

[Notdratnos-tichondrius (Notdratnos)]

Here are the patch notes if I were in charge:

Atal’Dazar

• No changes

Freehold

• Vile Bombardment now targets a random player rather than the player closest to Sharkbait, and has an animation indicating where it will land.
• Increased the range of Azerite Powder Shot to 100 yards, damage reduced by 10%.
• Damage of Captain Eudora’s Powder Shot reduced by 20%, damage changed from Physical to Fire. This ability now ignores line of sight, but will not target the same player twice in a row.
• Damage of Swiftwind Saber increased by 30%, but increased the animation time to make it more dodgeable.

Kings’ Rest

• Damage of Spit Gold reduced by 30%.
• Damage of Severing Axe reduced by 30%.
• Removed Frost Shock from the Witch Doctors.
• Damage of Shadow of Zul’s Shadow Barrage reduced by 20%.

Shrine of the Storm

• Reduced the damage of Lord Stormsong’s Mind Rend by 20%. Players can no longer be targetted by this ability twice in a row.
• Whispers of Power reworked on the Vol’zith encounter - in the Grasp of the Sunken City phase, there are now Shadowy Manifestations that any player can run over to stack the debuff on themselves.
• Manifestations of the Deep now deal damage to players who are in the Grasp of the Sunken City if they reach the boss or die during that phase.
  This makes the encounter more interesting as players will have to actively manage debuffs across the party in order to speed up the fight and defeat the timer, but they will also need to kill Manifestations rather than just let them reach the boss during the Grasp phase - they’ll have to decide just how risky to get with the debuff.

Siege of Boralus

• Ashvane Spotter no longer damages Tentacles on the Viq’Goth encounter.
• Travel time of Viq’Goth’s Call of the Deep increased by 25%.
• The cannons in the Viq’Goth encounter are no longer vehicles - a player now just has to interact with one to fire it at the boss.
• Fixed a bug in the Sergeant Bainbridge encounter where he sometimes attacked nearby players with Heavy Hitter when coming out of a disorient.

Temple of Sethraliss

• Reduced the damage of Static Shock by 10%.
• Reduced the damage of Induction and Galvanize in the Galvazzt encounter by 20%.

The MOTHERLODE!!!

• Earthragers in the Azerokk encounter will now try to fixate players who are not fixated by other Earthragers.
• Reduced Damage of Throw Rock from the Mine Rats by 20%.
• Reduced Damage of Iced Spritzer from the Refreshment Vendors by 20%.

The Underrot

• Cragmaw the Infested no longer gains energy during Tantrum.
• Risen Deathspeakers no longer re-cast Wicked Frenzy if crowd controlled during their cast.
• Increased the Cooldown of Diseased Mind from the Lashers to 15 seconds from 12 seconds.

Tol Dagor

• Fixed a bug where Bobby Howlis’ Vicious Mauling was interruptible even before the Blade Turning shield had been broken.
• Bobby Howlis no longer casts Vicious Mauling just before or during Jes Howlis’ Howling Fear cast.
• Damage of Incendiary Rounds on the Overseer Korgus encounter reduced by 25%.
• The Sand Queen’s Enrage is now dispellable by any Magic Dispel as well as Enrage Dispels.
• Buzzing Drones no longer cast Itchy Bite on nearby players that are not their threat target.

Waycrest Manor

• Reduced the health and damage of enemies in the Huntsman’s Lodge to bring the difficulty of the dungeon with a right door open more into balance with when the Top Left door is open.
• Removed Infested from any Witches that spawn as part of walking into an area.
• Aura of Dread is now slightly more forgiving - players that have moved in the past 1 second do not gain an extra stack when the DoT ticks even if they are stationary when it does.
• Reduced the Damage of Lord Waycrest’s Wasting Strike by 20%.
• Increased the damage of Bile Explosions from the Oozelings in the Raal the Gluttonous encounter by 300%. Reduced the initial damage of Rotten Expulsion by 50%.
• Consume Servant now heals Raal for twice the health of the consumed Servant.

Affixes

• Explosive Orbs spawn rate changed to be much more relevant on fewer targets and much less punishing on many targets.
  This change will reduce the affix’s unintended effect of causing players to pull very very slowly, and will make it much more of a factor on single target encounters. Orbs now spawn about three times as much on single target, but at five or more targets they will spawn about half as often, and will never spawn if there are already three out.
• Bolstering is now a 15 second non-dispellable debuff, and instead of increasing health it reduces damage taken by 20%. Bolstering now occurs 2 seconds after an enemy dies rather than immediately.
• Raging is now dispellable by any magic dispel rather than just enrage dispels.
  This change will reduce the need to have a druid or hunter in your party for this affix. The other option we were considering was making these classes unable to dispel it.
• Fixed a bug with grievous where it gains a second stack earlier than intended, as discussed in this article: https://www.wowhead.com/news=288868/grievous-nerfed-to-cap-at-4-stacks-new-grievous-analysis
• Grievous damage reduced by 25%.
• Necrotic now stacks 30% slower than it did before.
• Adjusted the Teeming Spawns in Atal’Dazar to remove the random component.
• Volcanic radius increased by 20%. Volcanic Plume initial damage reduced by 50%, but it now stacks a DoT that deals 50% of a player’s Maximum Health over 10 seconds.
  This change should increase the difficulty of the affix to bring it into line with the others.

Achievements

• Added a title for having the realm’s best run of each dungeon, in the style of the Mists of Pandaria Challenge Mode titles.
• Added two exclusive transmogs for each armor class, with one set unlocked for completing all dungeons on +11 (Bracers, Belt) up to +15 (Tabard, Shoulders); and the other unlocked in the same way for completing all dungeons on +16 up to +20.
• Added seasonal titles in the vein of “[SEASON] Gladiator” for players with the best overall set of dungeon runs at the end of each season.

[Surelok-anetheron (Surelok)]

1400 tank here, so I guess I’ll offer feedback from the mid point of the spectrum.

1. Specific dungeons:

a) You fixed explosive scaling on last boss of Underrot, but you didn’t fix volcanic scaling. Given the stacking mechanic on that boss, dealing with non-stop volcanic spawns is a bit comical. It’s not deal breaking, but it doesn’t feel like it was intended.

b) King’s Rest, even after all the changes, is still hard to enjoy. RP trash after the first boss is brutal, and is harder than most dungeon bosses in BFA. Then, for a regular trash mob, the Berserkers are too deadly and require way too much effort to deal with (stunning/soaking to reset dot). Then, there is Shadow of Zul who commands a lust on fortified weeks.

Most dungeons get harder/easier depending on whether it’s tyrannical or fort, but KR is hard every week. Hard bosses (council and King are on the harder end of the spectrum), and hard unavoidable trash make for a dungeon that’s a drag.

c) Motherloade has a puzzling spike in trash difficulty after the second boss. Every group elects to death skip to the last two bosses, rather than deal with the trash. I am all for clever skips (like bears in DHT), but you are skipping half the dungeon right now.

2. Affixes:

You guys buffed trash tremendously in BFA, and I personally enjoy it! I’d rather wipe to hard trash, than wipe to unavoidable one-shot boss mechanics ala Legion. There is always room to improve on a trash pull.

That being said, it feels like you forgot to re-balance trash-specific affixes to account for this new harder trash. Specifically, explosive and bolstering, and to a lesser degree sanguine, are much harder now than they were in Legion. Explosive with its uncapped spawns dominates you during long trash pulls. Bolstering is depressing in Shrine, Siege and Waycrest, where there are pulls with 4 tiers of HP and uncontrolable Lt mobs. Sang is a drag in the same cramped dungeons.

In Legion you could play around these affixes. Sanguine was easy to deal with, because dungeons had a wide open layout and space to maneuver. There were also not nearly as many mixed-in white mobs dropping the pools. Bolstering was a common sense check. DPS evenly and you win. There were Bolster traps here and there, but a seasoned group knew how to trigger them. Finally, explosive was tolerable because trash died much faster.

These affixes need a tune up.

3. Other:

There needs to be a way to reroll keys. Right now the only way to reroll a bad key is to run it. Give or take, that’s 40-60 minutes of your life just to reroll a key. This is a very steep cost to pay.

It’s very dispiriting when weekend rolls around and your entire groups has dead keys. You are looking at doing the chore of rerolling rather than having fun. Give us a way to reroll a dead key without wasting an hour of our time in a dead dungeon.

[Mephiles-kiljaeden]

This is a good post, but I’m sorry, the problem is (no offence), are you willing to listen to what we have to say or are you simply going to dodge the feedback we give you for so long? Because all of this is really good feedback and very good insights on what we experience in these dungeons. If you are willing to listen, heres what I have to say on that matter:

Tyrannical: disparity between health and dmg. theres a total of 55% increased stats: 40% on health and 15% on dmg. On fortified, 30% hp and 20% dmg. Decrease the health on Tyrannical by 5% if you want to keep the dmg increase in line:

Ex: 35% hp - 15% dmg

Or

Ex: 30%hp - 20% dmg

I’ve also seen Galvazzt energy spires fork as well, I stand on one pillar and soak, while he gets consume charges for some reason, maybe for some reason, its a bug and it forks to him. Is this intended to make two people soak the pillar at once, or is it intended to make everyone soak one pillar at a time?

[Akaraven-thaurissan (Akaraven)]

I was wondering why some places, specifically KR was so much easier and now thanks to the changes it would make me want to run Teeming weeks more often and not skip them, see how that pans out.

But with some changes, like the healing buff on the healer, the Whispers of Power, it makes me think, why not make more of these types of mechanics in each dungeon that allow for non standard groups to pass the place?

And no, I am not talking about the 5 tanks that done UR, I mean like Necrotic or Bolstering week if you did not have a slow, CC or some factors of your group being OP you found it very hard if done wrong.

So like the healing buff that didn’t always go on the healer but now does which makes the fight that little bit easier, place buffs that give members something to boost them to help your group when you are missing something like that much needed mage with his mass CC, or when your tank is a warrior who cannot self heal on fort teeming week for example.

I refuse to join some weeks in some dungeons for this exact reason in that you may need specific mechanics of your own to pass, like the 3-4 interrupts needed on Shrine for the second boss on a high key, and that being another example, you go in with 1 interrupt? Your tank is 50% or less health? Place a mechanic so they can get a reduced CC on their interrupt to help them pass.

Knowing is half the battle, finding the right team to do the mechanics is harder some days than actually doing the content and a good part of why some teams don’t finish dungeons. I mean just look at how easy it is to interrupt, with all the add-ons even easier, with DBM telling you which one to specifically interrupt it is virtually a brain dead mechanic, but with your only interrupt on CD?

[Turnberry-illidan (Turnberry)]

I’ve done about 300 keys so far in BFA so here are a couple things I would suggest.

First off, I think Fortified and Tyrannical are bad affixes in general. They don’t add anything to any dungeon other than “that boss is impossible on +x tyrannical” or “you don’t want to do that dungeon on fortified.” In my opinion these should have been removed and replaced by the seasonal affixes.

Next thing is the timers. I definitely think Siege and Kings Rest need +3 min on their timers. Siege is pretty much impossible to time on high keys unless you abuse the spotters. King’s Rest is a problem if you don’t have the perfect group comp to shroud/death run the bridge before the 3rd boss. If you don’t use invis pots to skip 2 packs on the bridge you end up with 112% mob count.

Last thing I’ll say is there are a few select mobs that need to be looked at. The berserkers in King’s Rest, enforcers in Freehold, brute honor guards in Atal, and all the trash after the 2nd boss in Motherlode.

[Meobe-zuljin]

I am not going to comment on specific changes, but on one specific issue I have that occurs in multiple dungeons: Teleporting the player back to a location while fighting.
I have encountered this issue mostly in Freehold, Atal’Dazar and Motherlode.
I am sure that this is known as it occurred to many of my friends as well, but less often than it did for me as far as I know.
Here are a few scenarios in which this issue occurs:
I am simply tank a pull and I get teleported a few yards away and my camera changes very fast which might make me show my back to the pull for no reason.
I pulled the stalker pack in the stairs to the right side of Atal’Dazar and would get teleported back to the stairs again and again for around 10 seconds. (I have footage of this)
I get knocked by a mechanic and I get teleported back behind a mob.

This behavior is new from BFA and has been annoying me a lot as I lose control of my character for a brief moment in dangerous situations.
I feel like it might be a sort of safety net to avoid people getting out of bound or getting stuck in some locations, but it happens at the most random moments which can easily cause a wipe in competitive content.

The only other thing that I can think of that is more specific to 8.1 patch changes would be the last boss in Shrine that has been stated multiple times.
I don’t even want to go in Shrine during a Tyrannical week with the last boss having too much health and taking 4ever. Temple changes were all good other than the first boss fixating during Cyclone Strike which has been fixed in the last patch.