For the love of all that is good in this world. Can you stop designing trash packs with 100 required interrupts?
It is seriously just obnoxious and a total pug nightmare.
Shift the focus back to having to do damage to win, and not focusing on building groups with the most interrupts and aoe stops possible.
I think interrupts are fine to implement into trashpacks, youāll just need more coordinated groups in higher keys, which is how it should be anyway
I was just coming to say, I did Dawnbreaker as a preservation Evoker. Things I noticed: Sometimes the ship had invisible walls that blocked me from healing the group with Verdant Embrace. I noticed on both the evoker and the mage that it had invisible walls that would stop my Temporal Anomaly and my Frost Orb from traveling across the ship. Soar, which is basically what I use instead of a mount, doesnāt work during the boss fights (that FUBARād me at first). Soar also seemed to have weird interactions when you have to go to the two side ships to kill the nerubians to unweb the shipā¦ Itās like I was getting pushed around by gusts of wind and couldnāt control the character (that did not happen on my mage). Lastly, there was one time that Verdant Embrace sent me flying through the map.
Other than that, dungeonās pretty fun/cool. Mob density in the city could take a looking at.
Necrotic Wake: Winged Champions to carry you up top float in the air about 50 yards above you and dont come down.
Another issue for Dawnbreaker is that the Dragonriding requirement forces Druids out of form. For Cats after landing, itās an annoying wasted gcd shifting back to Cat on landing. For Bear in any version of the dungeon thatās challenging, itās going to be deadly to land and frantically try to shift back into Bear form (to regain all the basic tank survivability tanks are assumed to have) while youāre taking casts to the face.
This is particularly important if these sorts of Dragonriding mechanics are being considered as something to take forward into new dungeons.
This sort of mechanic is also going to feel really bad for Outlaw, since itās essentially a forced drop/reset of all buffs on a spec whose design is based around chaining the buffs through cooldown reduction through attacking. While classes get favoured or disadvantaged to some degree by any encounter design, it seems exceptionally poor to have a design that essentially neuters a spec entirely.
After defeating Amarth in Necrotic Wake, the Winged Champions to take you to the next area were stuck floating in the air. We could not continue the dungeon.
Unbridled Void (Void Speaker Eirich in The Stonevault) graphic is far too dark.
Iāve only tested dungeons at +2 or +3 because of the scalingā¦
Even at those levels itās very noticeable that we are heading into another season of requiring a lot of stops and defensives coordination to avoid being one shot every 10 seconds.
Please reconsider the design of trashpacks, there are way too many casts and high damage intake.
I think the damage scales too fast compared to health, mobs should take longer to kill without one-shotting all the time.
Really hope blizz listens to this feedback. Not looking forward to another season of one shots, aoe stops, and timing keys with 30+ deaths. Low dps has to be a condition for failure in M+. Putting all of the success on staying alive is not fun.
This is exactly what I was afraid of, except I was thinking the most likely victims would be Frost Mage and Destro Lock. Any kind of Thorns effect needs to very carefully tuned to not overly screw just a few specs compared to others.
Fixed that for ya
Here are my impressions so far on both dungeons and the new affixes:
The Stonevault - First boss seems overtuned, and the abilities from some of the trash mobs (mainly Void Corruption from Earthen in the central area) hit incredibly hard. The other 3 bosses seem mostly fine however, maybe add some way to shrink void puddles on final boss, because it can get kinda hectic.
The Dawnbreaker - Awful dungeon. Canāt mount up at start for no reason, caster mobs hit incredibly hard and chain cast. First boss has 2 separate 9-second channels where you deal no damage to her, and if anyone in the group happens to have the heal absorb/DoT debuff on them at that time they are 99% dead. Trash mobs in the city section are way too densely packed, pull from a mile away, and chain cast so hard to move them away from the pathing boss (pathing boss is fine for untimed content, doesnāt belong in M+). Final boss has a Dragonriding section that doesnāt need to exist, theres no mechanics or anything to do during it, it is just a waste of time.
Ara-Kara, City of Echoes - First boss seems incredibly overtuned. Shriek cast knocks the group down to 10-20% HP on tyran with no defensives and is immediately followed by having to kill adds that spawn scattered throughout the room and then dodging webs. Flying mobs in the final area seem incredibly overtuned, if they get pulled with another pack on Fortified people will die. Otherwise seems fine.
City of Threads - Dungeon is still bugged so hard to get a full read on it. After severeal attempts have only seen the 2nd boss a single time before the dungeon fully resets. First boss is solid, the āfind the spyā section takes too long, could be tuned down to 3 spies instead of 4.
Grim Batol - The large Void Dragon mobs seems overtuned. The āfloor fireā they cause is hard to see and does insane damage, and the knockback ability feels like it knocks back too far for a trash mob. Would like if the Circle/Knockback combo on first boss was more clear about which direction it knocks you. Second boss seems like it only impacts the tank with mechanics. Wouldnāt mind if 3rd boss HP was shifted more towards Drahga over Valiona, because as it is the Drahga portion feels meaningless. Final boss is solid, purple-on-purple can make it hard to see tentacles but hard to fix that (maybe add red streak to Shadow Gale/Boss model?)
The Necrotic Wake - Dungeon is bugged to where the Kyrian donāt come all the way down to the ground after defeating Amarth. Prior to that it seems largely the same. I do enjoy that people can use the Shield pickup and continue doing their rotation, adds a touch of variety outside of āspear do damag!ā
Mists of Tirna Scithe - Business as usual, was a solid dungeon in Shadowlands and remains that way now. Only complaint is that the Staghelms in the final area chaincast a lot more, leading to frustration.
Siege of Boralus - Only got one run in on this for Fortified (not very popular), but it seems largely the same. Has a single glaring issue in the Firebomb ability on trash mobs in the very first area of the dungeon. Firebomb was hitting for ~2 mil each, making it the deadliest ability i have seen so far, and the mobs chaincast. Either make Firebomb interruptible OR massively tune down the damage.
Overall Dungeon Feeling: I noticed many caster mobs not only chaincast abilities, but those abilities seem to be a 50/50 split between interruptible/stunable. I donāt know if this is in response to Vengeance DH Sigil of Silence/BDK Mass Grip Silence, but it makes the dungeons more frustrating overall. In combination with some of the new affixes buffing caster mobs, it can easily become a deadly combination with Fortified weeks.
New Affixes: Of the 4 of them, 3 felt almost invisible.With Reckless, Attuned, and Focused I hardly noticed the bonus damage dealt as a DPS, and its hard to truly gauge how much extra damage we took with this being our first look at many of these dungeons. The standout BY FAR is Thorned. Every single trash pull ended with at least one death, and if you were a DoT based spec like Affliction/Hellcaller Destro Warlock you either spent 60% of the pull channeling Drain Life or you died. Across multiple dungeons, Thorned accounted for hundreds of millions Damage Taken by the end of the run, only losing out to melee damage to the tank. If this affix were live as-is, several specs would be straight up banned from doing M+, and most healers would likely just skip that week (especially combined with Bursting). I can appreciate trying to introduce new Affixes, but this batch just seems to be more of the same āPunish the tank and healerā crap that has already shrunk the amount of players willing to fulfill those roles.
General Thoughts
Healers feel weak. Not sure if this is because of the ilvl scaling, or if itās the healer nerfs you have consistently been pushing through.
You have two months to fix Reckless, Thorned, Attuned, and Focused. Kiss/curse affixes are a step in the right direction, but these are not it. You are attempting to promote diversity with these affixes, but you are doing the opposite. Please review these affixes.
These affixes are currently in a poor state, and there are several content creators who have already addressed this in full, lengthy videos.
The most egregious is Thorned, this affix is absolutely atrocious. It currently has no ICD, procs off every single mob engaged, procs on ticks of DoT effects, and every attack. Pets are currently proccing Thorned back to their owners. Who thought this was a proper way to implement this?
How did after years of feedback Bolstering continue to exist in the +7 affix pool? Sanguine could be put in the same boat.
If you look at the numbers, M+ numbers drop drastically on specific affix weeks. Why arenāt you removing the affixes that cause players to not even want to play the game? You need to seriously review the M+ population on weeks by affix, and pay attention to when people are just refusing to play the game due to the affixes that week.
Ara-Kara, City of Echoes
The dungeon itself is a bit confusing with the pathing, but with a proper map Iām sure players will figure it out.
Specifically the pathing to the second boss Anuāzekt[215405], occasionally my tanks get lost and ask where to go when you have to go through that small house to get to the boss.
Is it really necessary for there to be holes in the web bridges in this dungeon? It just feels like a silly design choice to make a bridge with a hole in it. Fewer players will fall into these holes after a few weeks, but everyone learning the dungeon has at least one accident.
Avanoxx[213179]
- The only feedback I have on this boss is it would be nice to have some sort of indicator when itās about to start eating the small adds. Currently the timer just expires and the boss just starts hopping around. Maybe a cast to indicate itās about to start eating the adds.
Anubāzekt[215405]
- Great boss. Maybe very slightly shift some of the damage from Ceaseless Swarm[433781] to Infestation[433740] to slightly penalize you stepping into the green less, and penalize players going into the rotating circles more.
Kiākatal the Harvester[215407]
- Cosmic Singularity[432117] AoE feels a bit large for the mechanic, because if you are a melee trying to get into a Black Blood[431985] near the boss, you have one chance to solve it. If you mis-gauge the range and you root yourself too close, there are limited solutions to pick a new Black Blood pool.
- A potential solution could also be to indicate the AoE of Cosmic Singularity for a longer period before it actually explodes, to give melee more leeway.
- Another potential solution would be to make you immune or heavy DR to the Cosmic Singularity while in a Black Blood, to penalize melee players less.
The Stonevault
E.D.N.A [210108]
- This boss needs some more grace period between the casting combo, or healers need better scaling/healing at low gear levels. Particularly the best way to adjust this would be to increase the delay after the 2nd Refracting Beam
Currently it plays:
Refracting Beam[424795]
Refracting Beam[424795]
Seismic Smash[424888]
It seems like the intended strategy is to do 3 then 2, then take the Smash damage (or, 2+2, then 1 with the smash). I believe there should be a small delay from the after the second beam to the seismic smash, in case there was a mistake. This would give the healer more time to patch the group up.
Refracting Beam[424795] Maybe slightly more delay before going off so the players have more time to adjust to the pillars. Itās hard to coordinate this in a pug group. It may be worth looking into changing the animation of the pillars to better indicate if one of them is about to be broken (say for example, the pillar starts glowing when someone is standing behind it with a beam, so you can readily identify how many pillars you are about to break BEFORE the animation casts).
Skarmorak[210156]
- Occasionally the crystals[214443] spawned really far away which made it unnecessarily difficult. Unsure if bug, player error or intended. In one spawn pattern we had most go one direction, and one go the completely opposite direction.
Master Machinists[213217][213216]
Would like to see better balance/equalize the HP of the two bosses to make it easier to cleave them equally in 2target.
Speaker Brokk[213217] jumping away and casting Molten Metal[428161] heavy penalizes melee heavy groups that may not have a ranged kick available.
Void Speaker Eirich[213119]
- Unbridled Void[427869] is very difficult to see in the arena. It is very dark. Please give it a better indicator/animation.
The Dawnbreaker
Ship mechanic is very cool aesthetically, but it is very inconsistent with:
- Targetted ground effects [hunter volley, etc]. I had issues placing ground effects in the middle of the ship, especially when you first walk onto the ship.
- Movement abilities (rescue, disengage, veng retreat, verdant embrace) are inconsistent and have bugged interactions.
Would have loved to see more dragonriding from ship to ship in the first area to clear trash (and different trash packs). Currently you fly to one ship, fly to a second ship with identical trash pack, back to main ship. What if there were 4 ships and you had to choose 2. That would give you some agency and trash pathing choices. What if the lieutenants were on these ships instead of in random houses and then defeating 2 on the ships you would only have to defeat two on the ground. The current implementation just feels very bland.
City area is miserable, needs massive changes. Dragonriding in this area feels AWFUL because of how tight the landings have to be. Reduce mob density, reduce patrol pathing, make wider areas to land, and honestly make more open area to even engage the boss in. Feels very lazy to get the majority of your trash % in this area of the dungeon.
Anubāikkaj[211089]
- Dark Orb[426860] is inconsistent. The orb will collide with the fountain in the ālight areaā, but not with the flags in the same area. Fighting this boss in a poor location just feels very bad. And you should never have to drag a boss a large distance just to have a sufficient area to fight it in. The re-spawn point of this boss should be reviewed and possibly changed. Honestly would love to see this boss in his own boss area in the center of the city. The whole boss experience just feels very poor at the moment.
Rashaānan[224552]
- Stage 1 of this boss feels good.
- The intermission is absolutely atrocious. Needs big changes. Arathi Bomb[434655] must stop or get removed when starting the intermission or flying. Erosive Spray[448888] should never cast close to an intermission, the concept of you taking damage in the air is awful, the indicators showing players where to go are terrible. If you really want to commit to this level of interaction, just use the dragonriding racing rings to indicate to players where to go. If you do go this route, make the rings heal you as well.
- Hard to comment on Stage2, because every time we landed the boss would bug and instantly ended the encounter.
City of Threads
Tried to test this dungeon but with the consistent, reproducible game crashes itās very difficult to keep a group motivated to continue it. Additionally the lack of an in-game map makes it difficult to navigate and test.
Will upload more notes on this dungeon after the next testing phase and hopefully the game crashes are fixed.
Mists of Tirna Scithe
Putting the new checkpoints behind Druids, Herbalism, Tauren and Nightelf is a terrible, terrible choice. Dungeon checkpoints should NEVER be gated. If you want to leave the skip at the very beginning, and the mushroom area for the buff behind specific gates for aesthetic value, I still donāt agree with it but I understand.
But dungeon checkpoints behind a gate purely for aesthetics is a horrible design choice and feels terribly restricting for players. Realistically you should just remove all the requirements.
Necrotic Wake
Winged Champion[165605/176692] are currently bugged and do not function correctly on the beta. When you wipe thereās a chance they get stuck in the air and will not return you to the top.
On the discussion of these mobs, the entire mechanic here is very poorly implemented. Having to wait for the angel to fly up and down feels pretty bad from a player perspective. You should seriously consider speeding these up 2x maybe 3x as fast, and make them significantly more responsive and have a shorter respawn. Being gated behind a goofy mechanic to even get back to your team in a dungeon feels very bad.
Discarded Shield should maybe get another +2 seconds added to itās duration. No comment yet on the new locations of the weapon spawns.
Siege Of Boralus
Without Spotters, some trash revisions should absolutely be considered. Specific areas to review be the very beginning of the dungeon leading to Chopper Redhook[144160],
and the banana hallway after Dread Captain Lockwood[129208].Chopper Redhook[144160]
Add better indication on the Heavy Ordnance[273716] on the ground, currently they are very difficult to see. Put an arrow or some sort of indicator over the small bombs left over AFTER the initial animation spawning circle.
ViqāGoth[128652]
This boss needs a re-design BADLY. This was arguably the biggest issue with the dungeon previously, and likely the #1 reason why many players did not want to see this dungeon return.
Grim Batol
Bombardment flying event feels not great for M+. It has a limited flight area, you now have limited the damage to the charge ability. If the event flew the entire dungeon it would be cool to be able to pick and choose which trash you can do, but that is also a large time sink and not very intuitive or fun for M+.
In a PuG group that is not optimizing their bomb drops it feels very low impact. I was really hoping you would just remove this event and review or reduce the trash in this area. Since there is no checkpoint before the first boss, and this area is a fairly long run back to the boss, you should really consider reducing the trash here and just scrapping the event.
On the topic of checkpoints, I would really like to see better checkpoints in this dungeon. There should be 2, and it should likely be first boss and the hallway before the third boss. The current checkpoint to run from 2nd boss to the end of the dungeon is LONG.
The AoE enrage from the Commanders I believe sorry I didnāt catch the ability name and ID, feels a bit overtuned.
General Umbriss[39625]
The animations on this boss are a step in the right direction, but still not very intuitive. The overlap between the knockback and the dragon breath should likely be reviewed, maybe potentially reduce the flight speed of the Shadow Breath[448566]. There should maybe be another indicator added to the Shadow Breath[448566] cast. I understand the theme here is he calling the dragons in, but you should have more indication of where they are spawning in before the Commanding Roar, so you have more time to interface with the most important mechanic.Erudax, the Duke of Below[40484]
Boss feels mostly fine, would be nice to have slightly better indicators and visuals, maybe make the tentacles a bit more bright and easier to see. I feel like the boss is pretty basic and as long as you donāt hit the tentacles thereās not much going on. If you hit a tentacle the chances are high youāll get comboād into something else and you just die. Which feels a bit underwhelming that this is the only concern.
Ara-Kara, City of Echoes:
Wish I had gotten further but we only had 4 of us with 2 melee DPS and it wasnāt working out.
Siege of Boralus :
ViqāGoth :
I havenāt even been able to try the dungeon yet, but just from watching other people playing in it, one of the worst bosses Iāve ever seen clearly just got worse for absolutely no reason.
The amount of knockbacks this season is unreal. Whoever thought it was a good idea needs to let go of that thought asap.
Grim Batol:
No reason why there shouldnāt be check points after 1st and 3rd boss. Itās such a painfully slow run back moving through this place without being able to mount. Trash also felt kind of undertuned in terms of health and even mechanics but hard to say for sure because only did 6 and 5 in pug. First boss telegraph is confusing as well.
Mists/Necrotic Wake:
I really canāt emphasize just how unfun these two dungeons felt given their recency, and most notably what disappointed me is the complete lack of changes. Exact same mob placement, routes, and so on, repeating the same dungeons people ran hundreds of times only a couple of years ago. These two dungeons need massive shake ups, genuinely I hope you completely redesign mob density in every pack, move locations of packs, completely retune mobs etc. If weāre just running the same routes as Shadowlands, itād be such a stain on what otherwise looks like a great opening season for the xpac.
Also the Mists maze, while unique, is also pretty tiresome and is figured out with a weakaura, plus gives another annoying role to the healer. At this point I question whether itās just worth opening it all up and letting people custom route through there to make it more interesting than figuring out the first couple of walls then letting a Chinese weakaura tell you where to go.
its tough to give specific feedback on dungeon because it felt like class tuning was very off. all healers felt extremely weak, it felt like they struggled to heal up the damage in the time it was coming out however there more prongs then just healerās time to to heal someone up.
since this was extremely low Ilvl this should been healers slowest point to heal someone up. However healers were still healing people up in 3-4 globals. This sets up more of the same problems that healers have been facing. We go from feast or famine style healing. Either its nothing to heal and were doing damage cause there nothing better to do or we are having heart attack cause next damage instance 1shots if they are not full and using a defensive.
it felt like Healing still needs to be slowed down, Mob Damage profiles need to be slowed down. Health bars feel like they may still need to be increased to encourage a slower healing playstyle while avoiding this feast or famine style healing. Lets restore health bar healing to not needing everyone at 100% at all times or they get 1 shot.
I would like to see better healing tuning so that i can give better feedback on dungeons. i cant say any one point felt bad because well to be honest whole experience felt beyond out of wack.
all of 4 affixes felt extremely oppressive because the dungeons damage felt oppressive with thorns affix being the most oppressive. it felt like dot classes couldnt even be entertained in that key cause they instantly killed themselves.
The mana mobs vs no mana mobs felt unnecessary. make affix affect everything and tune it appropriately. Thatās a lot for everyone to learn if this mob is buffed or not. Or make them have a visual so we can tell its being buffed by affix. Give it outline or glow or something to show its being buffed by 4 affixes.
The boon side of 4affixes felt like it didnāt matter at all because the effect is still worse then a good comp with class buffs. Its hard to want to bring a class without a class buff and good tuning. Overall doesnāt feel like a solution to comps. Instead i would like to see class buffs reviewed to encourage other comps. or ways to replace missing class buffs i.e. Professions.
Why do Demon hunters get a buff 3 of 4 weeks when they already bring the best buff in the game? this is going to cause them to either be under tuned in raids or overpowered in M+
Also all dungeons felt like mobs had zero HP. they all died instantly for testing dungeons with nearly no gear. Please increase monster hp substantially. I would like to see mobs live long enough that dps and timers matter again in dungeonsā¦ the dragonflight model of 30 deaths and timeable isnt fun. Make mobs live long enough that cooldowns feel impactful. Mobs were dying before cooldowns even ran out with no gear equipped.
please take a look at healing, Mob Damage patterns, Stops, Defensives, mob spam casts, player health and monster health to create a better experience for healers this expansion. We want to get away from heart attack healing style. We want our buttons to feel impactful but also to be able to perform our role majority of the time (Especially if you are enforcing the trinket change). We want more consistent healing without the feeling of someone going to die in next global.
awesome post i agree strongly with all of this
Waitā¦ you want healers to have to spend more than 3-4 globals to heal folks? That would be miserable and is basically what resto shaman currently plays like with its crappy 800k healing wave crits on a 5M health pull. Literally watched a resto shaman struggle to keep up with the staghorn dot in a mists 2 (fort). It would tick for 25% of the players health, the shaman would heal 10-15%, it would tick another 25%, shaman would manage another 10-15%. Thatās absolutely a miserable experience.
Frankly the current damage pattern feels absolutely fine if youāre on a healer that can actually move a health bar. In fact, Iād even say itās extremely fun currently. It took me a moment to cycle through healers to find one that has tuning enough to make this weekās M+ testing fun to heal. Ironically, I landed on paladin. (though Monk can do it, and druid wasnāt absolutely terrible unless people took tons of avoidable damage)
With a holy paladin I am able to crit someone for 50-80% of their health with a fully supād up Holy Light. When it isnāt supād up, i am still managing to hit them for at least 40% of their health. That feels good. Almost all of the damage that one shots in these dungeons is avoidable (key words, āalmost allā). Otherwise, there is a fair bit of passive rot damage to address and frankly I am spending more time healing in keys than I am DPSing which is fine and feels good. Every now and then I get the odd-ball group of people who actually know how to dodge things and I get to dust off the olā dps rotation, which isnāt a bad thing, but to advocate for slower health refill from healers is justā¦ ew.
Thereās a gratuitous amount of āweā in this statement.
Iāll concede that it does feel better when itās consistent healing vs wack-a-mole healing (i.e., Ice Lady from Halls of Infusion or, using a current TWW example, EDNA from Stonevault). But I donāt want to spend all my time healing because damage moves a playerās health by 11% and my heals only move the players health by 9%. Iāll quit if we go down that path, and Iāve been healing in this game for 19 years. I tried to go back to classic, I tried TBC, I tried WotLKā¦ and I just couldnāt get back into it because it felt SLOW. Now, WotLK was at least moderately tolerable because I could basically crit someoneās health pool, then overall gameplay was slow and in moments of healing if I tried to DPS Iād go oom. That was bad.
I have enjoyed since M+ came out and getting to weave damage into my healing on periods of ārest.ā
I want my buttons to be impactful. If I am having to spam nothing but healing spells every single global just to try and keep up with damage, that is the opposite of impactful.
Were you running with complete randoms? Or were you running with experienced players? Iāve run with both. If you run with experienced players, yeah, at these lower key ranges they definitely melt. If you run with randoms, not so much. Iāve seen so many folks in the 50+ keys Iāve done in the last few days doing current retail live numbers on dps. The mobs definitely donāt melt then. Frankly, with the state healing is currently in and the amount of times Iāve seen healers go oom healing chain pulled trash, or trash that takes forever to die, prolonging the fights isnāt going to be much fun.
Timers are the worst part of M+. it isnāt challenging. It isnāt rewarding. Itās just asinine. That said, having to rely on DPS to do excellent DPS in order to make a timer feels absolutely terrible as a tank/healer, because more often than not DPS have ungaboonga brain.
Most people Iāve seen in dungeons have their tier, raid trinkets, rare items with special effects, and crafted gear + embellishments. yeah, we are scaled to 587 ilvl for testing (Iāve noticed it changes from 580 to 587 once the key goes active, or at least it has for me the last two days since I noticed and repeatedly check), but we still have massive power boosts we wouldnāt typically have when just normal 587 gear.
Yes, Why do you want spells to top someone in one cast? youāre primary job is to heal people. when you complete the task in 1 global it creates this horrible gameplay loop of you have nothing to do or your group gets 1 shot because they didnt hit their defensive. You can feel impactful if you have time to heal people up and damage patterns support it. Its called attrition healing and it used to be a thing before dragonflight. When heals top people in 1 global it limits encounter design. it forces a style of encounter that requires defensives or you die. It forces healers to hit cds or you die. It also creates significant dead time which was saw in dragonflight and it becomes even more noticeable as people reach full gear which happens very quickly. People achieve 90% of full gear by about week 3/4.
That the problemā¦ these were extremely low keys on extremely low gear. These keys should have felt slowest they will ever be and they didnāt. So now magnify damage mobs do and nearly everything 1 shots. Its either avoid it or you die. this means there nothing for healers to heal because health bars donāt support the healing. It also means that you have to completely top someone before next damage event occurs or they are dead. they are probably dead if they also donāt hit their defensive on top of a full health bar. It removed so much agency from the healing role that healers end up in this 4dps meta again.
I agree the healers didnāt feel balanced between themā¦ They also didnāt feel balanced between spells in there kit. WE have things like holy bulwork doing huge percentages of healers kit. holy light being best button in the holy pallies kit by miles. Flash of light was tuned so poorly that it might as well not even be on the bar. Several healers felt extremely bad but it sounds like we had similar experiences on the healers.
Your using this idea of how keys feel with raid finder level of gear on. You will outgear this level of key on day 1 of season 1. this level of healing on raid finder gear is too high and monster damage is too high. they both need to be tuned down so that when we reach 90% geared in season which everyone reaches very quickly with crest/upgrade/Vault system. This cant be starting point or we will just be repeating extreme offenses that happened in dragonflight. It will be feast or famine healing.
Iām not advocating for never getting to dps. Iām fine with there being parts of dungeon where there is low healing and damage from healer matters as long as it doesnāt require zoning out and respacing. I actually think healers in low to no damage environments should be able to match a tank in DPS.
While I agree we donāt want to go back to classic style of healing but we want healing to be slow enough that healers feel like they are healing again. There should be able to be more levels of healthbar then Not full (will be dead to next damage instance) or full hopefully they survive if they hit a cooldown. BFA healing would be idea where health bars donāt instantly top. also more encounters like EDNA and Icy lady would be good for healers. They may be little extreme on top end but they overall are good for making healers want to push their limits.
And during those periods healers damage should feel relevant. It should compete with a tanks during that window of downtime. especially if they are forcing us to not wear cantrip effects and trinkets. Currently it does not even come close and those buttons feel very bad.
You want packs to live long enough that if people hit their 30sec+ cds that they actually get to see the benefit of them. We were testing dungeons at raidfinder gear and mobs were still instant dieing. I did most of my testing in pugs so i got experience random effects going off not everyone performing optimally so it would only get faster as groups get more organzied. It felt like mobs needed significantly more HP. I also am firm believer that healing should pressure a mana bar. it creates more elements to healing as a whole when mana matters. Yes you may need slow down for a pull so that a healer can drink but tanks have plenty of tools to be able to sustain while healer drinks for 15-20secs. Healing as a whole is in a better state when mana matters.
How does did your team push their defensives feel any better? If you restore DPS and HPS mattering in the key then we can get away from did mob 1 shot you at this specific spot. It still requires your team to perform optimally it just allows everyone to have more fun. The timer isnt going away. Its either it matters in Form of DPS/HPS or it matters in form of hitting stops and defensives.
This is raidfinder level of gear. its very low gear level. most people will out gear it day 1 or day 2 of the season with exception of maybe tier set.
I actually forgot to point this out in earlier feedback, but I noticed this wasnāt an issue exclusive to healers. It seemed like the scaling applied to players in dungeons causes some sources of damage to go way down and others to go way up (relative, so maybe they just donāt get reduced). The most egregious example I saw was Demo Lock, where on dummies most sources of damage where fairly close and within a reasonable distribution. Then in dungeons, my Felguards were hitting so hard with Legion Strike that they were doing like 50-60% of my total damage. Sounds like this is happening with a lot of specs, where certain spells are being scaled so low they do nothing, and other spells are either being scaled up or ignoring the ilvl scaling.
did every key on at least +4 besides siege that I did on a +3. Most groups were partial pugs.
current issues with m+
Mists
Necrotic wake
Siege of Boralus
Grim Batol
Stonevault
Dawnbreaker
Ara Kara
City of Threads