Feedback: Mythic+ Testing - June 13th - June 18th

Grim batol 5 no affixes

Trash mobs

  • I like the changes to Engulfing flames, makes it less of a spam fest to kill as much as possible to picking what packs you want to remove with limited charges and then doing some light damage to the rest so the ride doesn’t feel like a waste of time after your first 5 shots.
  • The AoE enrage in one of the drakinoids does before first boss is terrifying when it goes off before fortified or any of the new level 4 affixes even when its alone might need to have that reduced. Similarly twilight enforgers ever stacking enrage doesn’t feel like a mechanics you counter with soothes, its just kind of ther, building up to fast to do much about, especially if theres 2 in a pack.
  • Enveloping shadowflame comes out so frequently and with an absorb so high it feels like it was balanced around DF style healing where topping people off from 10% was pretty common, it’s not interruptible and cast more frequently then dispels cooldown.
  • its a hallway dungeon with a death pit down almost all of the middle; twilight destroyer’s feels extrememly punishing with its knockback and Twilight flame puddles ticking for so hard with how little space there is to dodge them. Similar problem with sanguine likely in the future

bosses

1st boss General Umbriss

  • It’s something that can get better with experience im sure but the timing of his mechanics feel super punishing already.
    Its a neat idea for a boss, i usually like the big drive by dodging mechanic fights but having the debuff time out as the first fly by happens turn its into a mess of trying not to clip people, cover too much of the same safe zone so we can still use it drake runs, actually dodging the drakes (there lines arent super clear). Consider desyncing the 2 so earth goes off a little before the run or a little after, Could also make the puddles despawn faster so they only affect the next 1 drake run not the next couple.

forgemaster Throngus

  • The puddles feel like they grow a little to big and his aggro radius also feels a little large but thats more because of how his room is set up. Because this is the only real place you can skip trash and keys are timed so people are less likely to wait as he paths back and fourth to safely grab more trash he’s going to be pulled with only that first quadrant’s worth of space for a lot of groups and one of the molten pools grows to cover like half of that. Other then that he’s fine.
    Drahga

  • Think he might be bugged if not, another horrible overlapping boss. Twilight buffet overlapping curse of entropy right after incovation of flame is a very hard hitting combo. As stated i think he’s bugged because he puts Curse of Entropy one 3 people where the dungeon journal text says target player, not target player(s), if the debuff was just on one player the healer needed to focus or dispell the overlap would be fine.

  • Also can bosses that leave early have some kind of universal cowardly buff or something to show we don’t have to go through their whole healthbar, my group was freaking out cause we only got Valiona down 35% the first pull and they though she was super overtuned health wise when really she just leaves early. It’s in the journal but people dont read that.
    erudax
    I like this fights change, keeps the original idea but twists it to work in a more modern setting. Only problem was the final bit of the shrinking storms walls seem to be a little smaller then the graphic shows.

Graphically
most of the mobs use their post cata graphics including (most noticeably with Umbriss) could the drakes get the same treatment, they stick out like sore thumb right after dragonflight is all.
Using the Evoker deepbreath animation on a enemy to establish a cone is a really nice touch, hope to see clear lines like this more often.

1 Like

I tried Edna in stonevault. All I can say is the ability pacing is way to fast? Like we are scaled low so everything just does monster damage right now but yeesh.

1 Like

I just want to echo what I wrote on another thread;

Removing Tyrannical and Fortified would work great alongside the new affixes. First, it would remove the insane potential of bad synergies between the new affixes, fortified and the +7 affixes (thus making Lieutenant type mobs, for example, not absolute walls one week and noodles the next).

The +4 affixes could breathe and they would form the basis of the routing decisions per week, as they would be the main challenge to plan trash around.

Basic scaling could be increase to make each key level be meaningful

+7 affixes could be trashed, they are quite largely disliked for many reasons (sanguine + all new unvavoidable slows in hero talents, Raging and Bolstering just being anti-fun ,etc) and instead replaced with affixes for bosses, thus replacing tyranical.

All those changes would make the M+ progression feel much much better in my opinion, and removing Fort / Tyra would allow the other affixes to shine.

It does, and its a good example of what I mean above; remove Fortified, this cast will be modified by +4 affixes and its difficulty can be more easily tuned around then.

This is not a request to make it all easier, the baseline key can be scaled up anyway. The point is to let the dungeon itself be the main challenge, not the arbitrary boost to the trash or the boss. Tyra/Fort just creates nope scenarios that makes keys absolute nightmare with all the combined affixes and abilities (trash mob ability bloat in older dungeons as well causes this issue to flare up even higher)

Thank you for reading, please consider this suggestion to make M+ way more fun.

6 Likes

Also note here; this is not good at all. Checkpoints should not be gated like this, its unreasonable. Lore is nice and all, but when it comes to pushing keys you shouldn’t feel like you HAVE to have a specific race or tradeskill to get the chances on your side.

It was bad enough when you needed 1 out of 4 covenant, now it is just plain worse on top of it.

6 Likes

I would like for the following to be addressed, because it is likely a bug and not intentional but boy is it frustrating.

On the ship during the Dawnbringer dungeon (speicifcally on the 1st boss), you cannot blink OR use Arcane orb because both you (with blink) and the Arcane Orb gets stuck on everything (the orb moves ~ 2 inches before stopping).

just give the check points to everyone! What are we doing?!? Run backs are anti-fun. Stop making your game worse on purpose!

3 Likes

+8 Fortified+Sanguine Ara-Kara, City of Echoes, tested by a group of 5 early-mid CE players:

Most of the named trash mobs before the 1st boss are hideously overtuned and one of them is killing people with Venom Pools they are quite literally dozens of yards away from. The first boss is hideously overtuned and will be an absolute nightmare on Tyran. The flying mobs before the last boss are hideously overtuned. And we were having crit errors left and right throughout the key.

Cool dungeon, but it desperately needs tuning. The giant Nerubian mobs have no business stunning everyone within 35 yds when the trash is this painful since they singlehandedly restrict any sort of large pulls here which feels bad. And Sanguine can die in a fire here.

+5 Grim Batol - Fortified + Attuned, PUG chill tryhards group

The combination of Fort and Attuned created nightmare mobs, as expected. Please read my post above about removing Tyra / Fortified - very relevant to this. The +4 affixes without fort would be very good at letting players figure their pathing and have fun - and I felt it here, they could be tuned much more easily (imo)

The bosses felt quite nice if a bit overtuned, on Tyranical they would be extremely unfun at that level.

The dragons dont fly past the troggs
Is this intentional? The dragons barely fly for 10 seconds in the first section only, meaning we have to fight the extremely overtuned trash in the second section at full HP.

Could not use Mind Soothe
“Can’t use that here” message

7 Likes

Grim Batol + 8 with Fortified, Attuned, Sanguine.

Group Composition: Prot warrior(myself), MW(Celestial), Ret(Templar), Fire Mage(Sunfury), Aug(Chrono). Group was a complete PUG.

*** Thank you to the group members for sticking through this key.

As a disclaimer, I have always hated this dungeon due to the trash and RP. I have never enjoyed this dungeon when it was current. That remains true from testing.

Trash:

The trash was absolutely smacking. I believe with proper tuning this dungeon will be fine, however. The dragon event not flying the length of the dungeon has created spots were the trash is overwhelming. Noticeably, the last section. Right after third boss, there is a very large dangerous pack and it took most of our cooldowns to survive and we barely did that.

Melee enraged mobs are absolute chads. It was fun and made for an exciting experience, however, I thought every pack felt like I was going to die. Especially the double Lava mobs with Attuned - this was crazy. The warlocks are equally as dangerous, but the decapitators and enforcers went absolutely nuts on our group.

As far as bosses go, the first boss needs some time between dragons and the floor indicators need to line up better/become more visible. We had difficulty with doing the mechanic properly, but the floor graphic was not lined up properly with the dragons. For example, the DPS would move to the second set of dragons and wait for the first set of dragons to do the mechanic, but their set of dragons would also do it at the same time. This happened a few times until it became easier to just look at the set of dragons that appeared first and second, instead of watching the ground graphic.

The overlapping of mechanics for most bosses will get annoying and dangerous very quickly in high Tyrannical. Second boss will absolutely slap if not tuned properly for Tyrannical.

I have a lot more thoughts, but I will save them until I run this dungeon more. My preliminary opinion will give this a 6/10 and it could be higher if trash were tuned more appropriately.

By the way, what is with you and these long dungeons? There is so much running and run back in this that it reminds me of HoI. It’s not fun to just waste time running. This will definitely not be a fun dungeon to do if that remains. It’s just a lot of wasted time, especially when you wipe at first boss and have to make the run back.

Thank you.

2 Likes

No surprise on the spotter change, I think we all saw it coming, but you probably need to significantly reduce the health on trash across the whole dungeon to offset this change. It’s a 39 minute dungeon where the timer was already tight with Spotter cheesing. Nobody wants to be running a 40 minute dungeon all season. Time to trim some fat off of this one.

Also, my enjoyment of this season almost exclusively hinges on the answer to one question: What are you doing to make Viq’Goth not the worst M+ boss ever? Nobody like getting stuck in a loop of killing tentacles that don’t progress the fight until they finally stop spawning so you can kill the one that does progress the fight. Easy solution? Killing the Demolishing Terror deals significant damage to the Gripping Terror, like 30% so dealing 40% via players and killing 2 tentacles is enough to kill the Gripping Terror and move on. Also shooting the boss with the cannon kills all lingering Demolishing Terrors.

While I can appreciate not having weapons basically run the dungeon for us, I need assurance that the bosses they were typically used on have been made significantly weaker to offset these changes. Basically all of the bosses were awful without the Kyrian orbs or the weapons because they either have adds that have too much health, or phases that significantly slow down (or stop) your damage on the boss. Blightbone’s adds got pretty awful after the orbs ended because they have too much health. Amarth’s adds spawn too spread out and have too much health. Stitchflesh’s Abominations have way too much health and Stitchflesh himself doesn’t stay attackable long enough. If you don’t kill Nalthor fast enough, you always have one person locked out of the main fight. All of these fights are made pretty awful as soon as you don’t have the weapons or orbs.

This is at least a pretty good compromise on who gets to open the doors. Not overly limiting. Though it would be nice to see maybe a couple more options. Alchemist, Troll, Worgen?

I still say the positive effects of these Affixes, the parts making us do more damage, need to apply to the entire dungeon including bosses. And I’m calling it right now: Thorned is going to make Frost Mages die the instant they cast Frozen Orb.

3 Likes

These dungeons are horribly overtuned.

Also, I love the reliance on magic damage for everything, that thing that Guardian Druids are so notoriously good at dealing with. :slight_smile:

3 Likes

It feels like these dungeons are continuing the DF S3 and S4 trend of trash dying too fast and hitting too hard. If they go live like this we’ll have another meta that’s all about surviving one shots and aoe stops. That’s not a fun way to play. M+ balance needs to be shifted back to timers being a condition for failure, not just the ability to stay alive.

Healing can’t be fixed as long as M+ trash packs hit like a train but can be aoe stopped/killed in 15 seconds.

8 Likes

After messing around a bit, now that scaling is fixed, and doing some low keys (2s and 3s) I can confidently state: Healing needs to be addressed. This is miserable. I’ve healed since Vanilla and quite frankly I don’t think it has ever been this bad. My heals feel like they don’t do a dang thing to anyone’s health (which isn’t surprising, a non-crit heals for < 10% of a players HP). If it’s intended for us to literally spend every global healing (which is effectively what I did; thank god for acid rain or I would have had little to no damage output), mana cost needs to be cut by 2/3 of the current cost.

It felt absolutely terrible. Granted, these were entirely pugs. Who knows what their normal key levels are. No one had been in any of the dungeons on M+ (like Grim Batol) and we had to effectively learn on the fly. But, lord have mercy… Blizzard, please, please, please address healing. You thought S2 of DF was bad with the healer complaints? (which honestly, I liked S2 of DF) This season will take the cake… Good riddance.

Side note, like the updates to Grim Batol. It looks to be a fairly fun dungeon. Timer felt fairly decent. We missed the timer by like 2 minutes (cause we wiped first attempt on last boss cause tank got yeeted into naughty stuff) and had 28 deaths, lol. So timer felt fine.

But the whole time I was in there I was thinking to myself, “This might be the first expansion I main a DPS or a tank.”

Edit: Oh, btw, City of Threads still crashes everyone and puts you back at the start. If you’re in a key, it bricks it.

3 Likes

After testing tonight I’m really confident you’re going to drive away the rest of your healers.

16 Likes

This Acid Nova ability you gave to the Spinemaw Staghorns in Mists of Tirna Scithe is a huge mistake and makes what was previously a much more enjoyable part of the dungeon horrible because you literally cannot pull two of these at the same time, slowing the dungeon down considerably.

Acid Nova’s Nature damage amp when paired with Fortified Acidgullets is immensely cringe and is a nightmare for healers to heal through and for players to survive. In higher keys I’d expect stops on Volatile Acid to be very necessary, sure, but even in a +6 this Acid Nova is hitting everyone for north of 70% and it’s generally just not a fun addition to what is otherwise a fun AoEfest area which this dungeon mostly lacks. If there’s ever a Fort+Bolstering week (gee, thanks for keeping that affix around, guys!) even 1 or 2 stacks of Bolstering will turn Acid Nova into a party wipe mechanic in even +10 keys.

5 Likes

After testing more and talking with many other, as well as reading previous posts, I confirm my stance; tyrannical and fortified have to go. The sooner we can test dungeons without those, and with the new affixes, the better we can make them :slight_smile:

The +4 affixes would work in a non fortified world, in a world where we keep fortified; absolutely not. The discrepancy week over week would just be jarring and depressing to face. Reminder that then the +7 affixes that nobody likes could be replaced with boss related affixes to replace tyrannical

4 Likes

Overall the dungeons seem fine atm with 2 MAJOR outliers and just obvious tuning passes to abilities.

Siege and Dawnbreaker.

Siege is about how everyone expected it to go, it’s just horrible and you gave us the literal worst version of the dungeon (alliance side) no clue why you decided on this because it was overwhelmingly disliked all of bfa from the alliance side (horde it sucked too but yea). Mobs need massive nerfs across the board, bosses seemed fine except for last boss you made the cone a guaranteed aoe which was just a bad change and made the fight even worse than it already was.

Dawnbreaker
This dungeon is just bad, after the first boss I’ve never had such an unfun experience in a dungeon throughout the 20 years of wow. Everything is too close together, the mini bosses do insane damage and require you to be in open areas to deal with them and the patting boss just makes it so awkward. You need to completely change mob placement and move the mini bosses into open areas for this to feel OK.

Everything else just needs tuning passes right now and overall I liked the other 6 dungeons even Grim Batol which i was apprehensive about I ended up liking

3 Likes

Here are fbs after first day’s testing:

Stonevault (+10 no affixes, only did first boss):

  • EDNA is overtuned on damage
  • casting frequency needs to be adjusted
  • could see a slight nerf on the speed of lasers

Dawnbreaker (+9 Fort Sanguine Attuned, only finished first boss):

  • The middle ship has pathing issues, when we use blink/hover/any ability that require pathing, they get stuck somewhere
  • The ability that releases two dark puddles needs clearer visual indication. Otherwise ppl need to stare at their WA to know when this ability goes off.

Mists (+9 Fort Sanguine Attuned):

  • Respawn points need to be available to everyone
  • Acid Nova and the single target green circle DoT(I forgot the ability name) is one shotting everyone when paired together. This prob needs a nerf from the waist.

Siege (+9 Fort Sanguine Attuned):

  • The hook mob before the first boss is pulling people like 150yds away from them, and they aren’t even in combat. (Got pulled to the ground spells after respawn n died again lul)
  • It’s nice to see the bananas having better visuals but maybe their numbers can be reduced?
  • The archer mobs at the end of the banana area need serious nerfs unless you want tanks to solo them like years ago in high keys.
  • Last boss fight is simply bad please revert

Grim Batol (+6 Fort Attuned):

  • Hmm I think we are supposed to dance during the first boss but the visual is really confusing on which path is safe/unsafe to stand in.
  • The number of non-boss enemies in the dungeon makes it too boring n long, would be nice if the scenario can effectively eliminate most of them.
  • One of us disconnected during the flight scenario n he can’t get on the dragon again
  • Another respawn point needs to be added before the last boss.

Necrotic Wake(+9 Fort Sanguine Attuned):

  • The Npcs that were supposed to fly you upwards was stuck midair…

Ty for reading!

3 Likes

Hey there, will share some more overarching thoughts at the end of the weekend, but a few specific points:

1. The balance between damage taken by the party and mob HP is off. I know that classes aren’t tuned right now, but in a key with every dps doing ~700k overall (which is similar to live numbers, so not a crazy value to expect people to do), you can die 20-30 times, and still time the key. Even beyond the attuned mobs, there are damage ticks hitting for 70-80% of my HP… but packs are absolutely melting. Mob HP seems ~20-30% too low for this level of incoming damage, at LEAST.

People who sign up to play DPS want their role to be to do as much DPS as possible. They do not want their role to be to hit defensives at very specific pre scripted times. With the current balance between mob HP and damage taken, living will gate keys, not damage.

2. Last boss Siege is much harder than rest of the key. I think it’s from the unavoidable damage from the tentacles.

3. Dawnbreaker mob density is demonic. Right now you’re aksing for 40% over count butt pulls

3.5. Line of sight issues on Dawnbreaker when you ‘step onto’ the boat. Right now, when you first step onto the gunship you can attack the mobs on the gunship. That said, if you’re on the dock, you can’t - you get LOS issues. There also seem to be issues with the mobs pathing to you (e.g., evade bugging and snapping or resetting). Similarly, when you step onto the boat, the camera ‘zooms’ close in behind your character, as if there is a wall behyind you and it’s compensating for it.

4. Grim Batol First boss ‘circles’ knockback is unintuitive and does not allow for good heads up play. So in Grim Batol you get a knockback when your circle spawns. As a result, you need to basically pre-positition to be knocked from one dragon sweep into the space where the other dragon will have already gone. Ideally this mechanic would be a ‘use a defensive on the circle, move from one line into the other and you’re safe - and better not fill up the room too fast!’ However, right now, if you don’t pre position to be knocked back into the ‘safe’ line, you will not be able to walk into it with normal walk speed, even with good positioning.

4 Likes

don’t really get why we’re locked to heroic ilvls while testing m+, feels like an oversight

2 Likes