Feedback: Monks

In Development The War Within Beta Test
223

I would like to add to Mistweaver’s mastery.

The general consensus here is that mistweaver’s mastery is lackluster. There is not enough oomph for Mistweavers, and for fistweavers there’s even less interaction (for being melee healers, having a stat that doesn’t work for Blizzard’s intended vision for the spec… is not great. I mean Mastery of the spec, right?).

While it’s great that Blizzard is looking to tie in more abilities to the stat (Crane Style, Jadefire Stomp), the core issue is that the mastery itself is weak, a flat heal on top of a heal feels meh, nevermind its scaling issues.

We really need to change mistweaver’s mastery!

I’m sure there’s plenty of people with a lot of ideas of what could be done, and I’m no developer. But since I only play WoW for fistweaving, I’ll try to come up with a not terrible idea (hopefully).

Make Gusts of Mists a decaying damage shield, that proc off all our core/hero abilities. Convert the flat heal it does now, into a decaying damage shield based on how much healing done. For example, any healing that we do that is core; Vivifies, Ancient Teachings, the first cast of Renewing and Enveloping mists, Awakened Jadefire etc, to place a damage shield according to x% of healing done on the target, that decays over x seconds depending on healthbar; full health just decays instantly, at 10% health decays over 4 seconds or whatever tuning is balanced. It’s kinda like a poor man’s version of Brewmaster’s stagger, but hey, we’re the same class.

Lore flavour? We weave a gust of mist that protects the target. Or we fart out a shield, whatever.

Second simpler idea: Make Zen Pulse as our mastery. Scaled accordingly ofc. Although making a stat as an activated proc might be weird?

3 Likes
224

So, something I’ve noticed is Mistweavers asking for mastery to be better never really think this out.

Let me explain.

Right now, Haste is wonderful for MW, Crit is quite good, and between them for raids you can stack basically all haste/crit gear and be quite happy. For M+, you can sub out alot of the crit for versatility and still function exactly the same, but be more survivable. Sure, you aren’t going to get as much throughput from vers as crit, BUT crit doesn’t make parts of your spec work (like say, a BM hunter or something). You can stack all crit/haste in raids, all haste/vers in M+, and you’re set. This is OPTIMAL.

If you go and make Mastery really valuable, it isn’t suddenly just going to become additional healing on TOP of what you already do, it is going to have to come from your current healing. And this would mean less secondary stats you could put towards crit or vers. In raids, maybe that isn’t so bad if you’re mistweaving, but in M+, that is just a flat out nerf to your ability to survive. DF was all about surviving and TWW looks like it will be even more important for M+.

Example:

You have 1000 secondary stats. Currently 600 of them are needed for haste, and the other 400 can be swapped between crit or vers.

If you made mastery less ignorable… 600 haste, 200 mastery, 200 crit or vers.

If you made mastery really important… 500 haste, 500 mastery, super squishy.

If you made mastery your best stat… 400 haste, 600 mastery, super squishy and now feel like you heal slower.

If they “fixed” mastery, it isn’t going to suddenly make you heal for more. They will just take it out of the spells you currently funnel haste and crit into and spread that healing out more.

Spreading out your healing over more sources ends up making each of them feel weak (just ask holy pallies).

1 Like
225

Been playing with Mistweaver and Windwalker a lot on the Beta realms lately and a few things really stand out.

For Mistweaver, talent “choices” feel very sparse as far as Kickweaving goes. In the final talent tier, it seems I have to invest a majority of my talent points to make Kickweaving functional. I think it would be a lot better if some of these talents where combined to free up points. For example, there is no reason Teachings of the Monastary and Jadefire Stomp need to be separate talents.

I’ve been having a ton of fun with Windwalker. The talent choices are all super interesting, and they finally have a way to scale better with stats which is amazing. However, I can’t help but feel energy starved a lot of the time particularly when playing a Blackout Kick build that benefits from many stacks of Teachings of the Monastary. Blackout Kick just provides so much cooldown reduction, you never have the resources to actually benefit from the CDR. Further, there seems to be an anti-synergy with Whirling Dragon Punch and Knowledge of the Broken Temple (Teachings of the monastery stacks up to 8) because Whirling Dragon Punch requires both Rising Sun Kick and Fists of Fury to be on cooldown- but Blackout kick keeps refreshing them so often, it’s actually difficult to find moments where Whirling Dragon Punch can even be used.

Finally, Shado-pan hero talents. I like the concept, and I appreciate there being a more passive option that wont complicate an already busy rotation. One issue I see with this talent is that it does not proc very often. A lot of the Shado-Pan talents rely on relatively high uptime to have any noticible effect. But FLurry triggering only every 400 energy spent leaves a very long gap between Flurry’s where absolutely nothing is happening with all your hero talents. If the Shado Pan hero talents are overperforming, it might be better to reduce the effectiveness of Flurry, but also reduce the amount of energy required to proc it.

2 Likes
226

A few Brewmaster abilities feel a bit inconsistent with other specs right now.

This isn’t a comment on damage or bloat, but moreso the mismatched functionality and/or lack of choices for shared class abilities between specs. Very subjective and not at all the most important topic at the moment, but I’d still like to talk about it.

Two immediate examples are Rushing Jade Wind and Expel Harm, both of which have received changes for the other two specs to allow for passive play options. I can understand why Expel Harm may have been passed over for this considering the unique functionality to BrM specifically, but RJW feels like it was kept as an exclusively active talent simply because Special Delivery exists as the BrM unique alternative.

Personally, I’d rather RJW be made a passive/active talent choice node and Special Delivery moved to its own node or retooled entirely. Not a huge deal, but one I figured was worth mentioning.

In a broader sense, I do hope we continue to see choice nodes introduces to allow for more passive alternatives to various active buttons where it is appropriate. We’ve actually received a good number over time, and I think that’s pretty neat.

1 Like
227

Reminder that this change is still not in the game and hasnt been for 2 months. please fix it or communicate that this change isnt making it into the game

12 Likes
228

Please bring back skyreach.

5 Likes
229

I currently have 2 issues with the WW spec.

At 15% haste (similar to my current main in Dragonflight), I am extremely energy drained all the time and this is with the Inner Peace talent. I understand that Haste is forced down our throats this expansion, which will probably lesser this issue… but I catch myself waiting a while for my next move. I don’t understand why I’m waiting 2-3 seconds for my next ability a lot of the time. Increasing the energy cost of Tiger Palm was not needed.

4 Set bonus, I have no idea how anyone could possibly reach 6 stacks with tiger palm being used all the time as the only combo point generator. I understand there are talents that allow rising sun kick and blackout kick chance to generate a point. but not clearly enough points throughout the rotation to rely on RNG to get me a 6 stack. It’s giving me false hope.

4 Likes
230

The Haste stat should scale up energy regeneration as well for WW - that should fix it.

4 Likes
231

so true king youre a genius

232

I’ll second this. It feels terrible, even at higher haste levels. I’m not fond of the dismissive takes. It’s an issue. Lower the cost of Tiger Palm, not that hard. The amount of haste required to always be casting is absurd. No one should be going 2-5 seconds without pressing a button.

4 Likes
233

Really surprised how many monks accepted changes and moved on. Shado Pan monk on WW is just all around bad, and the tier set for WW is bad. You will never hit 6 stacks on your tier set unless you play the class wrong. Shado pan has alot of things that work against itself; flurry charges being tied to your energy consumption just feels bad, the animation is bad enough. But when you dump flurry charges on an enemy that has like 10% health and you would rather have spent that on the next mob or boss pull, that feels awful. Warriors can save their Demolish ability on the colossus tree. Monks should be able to do the exact same.

Also being energy starved feels bad. Everything seems to cater to our Tiger Palm being beefed up, which ill admit is better than having a dead filler ability like Slam for warriors, but TP costs wayyyyy too much energy, especially since its the only chi generator we have. Haste needs to help our energy regen or something, having down time on a monk feels pretty detrimental to the class.

6 Likes
234

The core rotation is the best its been, arguably ever.

Feedback on how bad Shado-Pan is has been given since Alpha. The core problems remain and they haven’t made major changes to it yet and its likely they won’t given the expansion launches in a month and a half. Most classes are in this scenario: one hero talent that is really good, the other is really bad.

It already does, start of the expansion you will always have really low haste. Have not felt too energy starved on the beta, but its obviously lower than live. Talents like WDP, Energy Burst, Dance of Chi-Ji, Inner Peace, Ascension, will be hard required for the first tier to keep the smoothness to the rotation. Will probably not needs these as much as we get more gear.

1 Like
235

Mist Weaver Monk:

With the removal of Essence Font, The talent Rapid Diffusion should add Renewing Mist to the Target for 6/12 seconds after using Rising Sun Kick, or Enveloping Mist.

Conduit of the Celestials:

Strength of the Black Ox should make Enveloping Mists Instant cast, currently it is too disruptive for fist weaving, as it makes is stop all dps and waste two global cooldowns in order to target someone and cast Enveloping Mist, this is usually avoided by casting thunder focus tea and making Enveloping Mist instant anyways, so what’s the point of lowering its cooldown by 50%? just make it instant.

236

Still doesnt look like any notes regarding the glaring issue for Brew mostly with Shado Pan. You can get 10 stacks super fast yet takes forever to spend 400 energy to use those Flurry Strikes
Also for what it hits for it is miniscule. Defacto will be Master of Harmony hero spec if it goes live this way

Also since flurry strikes stacks to 10 against all odds only stacks to 10… Either its wrong or tooltip is wrong. And nerfing survivability for brew when its finally inline with other tanks like what are you thinking?

237

7/3 WW Monk Feedback

As an addendum to my previous feedback posts, this just consists of a few points that I forgot to include that are somewhat important.

Dual Threat Not Proccing WF and 2H Weapon problems

As the title of the section implies, it was recently discovered that Dual Threat does not benefit from Windfury Totem, now Skyfury. It doesn’t matter as much now that the buff is raid-wide but, still would be nice. Right now, we believe the check for Dual Threat is occurring after the Skyfury check resulting in Dual Threat not benefitting from the extra melee hits of Skyfury.

To me, it seems like Dual Threat was implemented to give Windwalker some sort of autoattack synergy and this seems like an odd exclusion for Skyfury.

Now, more importantly, there is currently no reason to use 2-handed weapons as a Windwalker in TWW. Because Dual Threat is going to be included in every single build because of where it is on the tree and the relative strength of the talent, there needs to be an adjustment made to Dual Threat for 2-handed weapons to have a higher chance to proc or something in order to balance out the less chances that Dual Threat can proc.

“Free” Emperor’s Capacitors should count towards Energy related Shado-Pan effects

These include Efficient Training as well as Flurry Strikes itself if the energy spend mechanic for that sticks around. This would remain consistent in theme with a change you made earlier in the Alpha/Beta testing process where Ordered Elements reduced Chi cost counts as the full amount for Drinking Horn Cover, Spiritual Focus, and Heart of the Jade Serpent. (Thank you very much for that)

This is a very minor change but if Shado-Pan is looked at going forward and becomes a viable option (it isn’t right now) then this small change would be appreciated.

Since there were no changes to Monk this week, all of the feedback in my previous post here is still relevant. I hope we get some last minute changes here (especially fixes for bugs) as we’re very close to being in a great place.

6 Likes
238

Aside from the few bugs here and there and smaller tweeks I’ve seen most people already post about, to me windwalker feels like it’s in a pretty good spot save some weirdness with Shado-pan. I don’t play mistweaver so I can’t and won’t really comment about that spec.

However brewmaster still does need some help. Mainly with it’s early expansion stagger value being linked to mainstat. This probably SHOULD NOT be linked to mainstat as this makes it very weak in early seasons and too good in later seasons resulting in it getitng nerfed.

I’d suggest detaching it from any stat value and give it a flat constant that’s manageable to work with for m+ content since it seems to be pretty good for Raid boss’s nearly always. Somewhere between 75-85% would probably be manageable without feeling too weak or too strong? Right now it’s about 65% on beta with talents that effect stagger. Feels a bit too squishy.

2 Likes
239

I’ve noticed a small bit of energy dips mid normal dps rotation but, it’s normally like that in first seasons with low stats + bad RNG on procs for dance of chi-ji etc. Plus the fact most people are testing these things on dummies and such. It’s probably not nearly as bad as you’re not standing completely still doing a dps rotation most of the time, dodging mechanics, helping stop casts, stunning, kiting away from ground effects.

To me personally as a 2500IO / 2100PvP Point of view, Windwalker feels pretty damn good compared to retail.

1 Like
240

To add to this resources are an issue in early tiers for lots of specs. Its not new or surprising. AND any buffs to resources almost always result in nerfs later on which leads to more balance isses for the classes getting messed with. It also feels bad to lose some scaling in this way.

…and WW has downtime sometimes. Its a thing that has been around and fits the style and theme.

241

I’ve said and suggested the exact same thing in the past, stagger both physical (80~85%) and magical (60~65%) should’ve been a fixed vaule while agi affected our Celestial Fortune scaling.
Due to having a lower health pool our health is supposed to be more stable with stagger, but instead with the current middle of the road stagger after k value, our health is more spiky than half the tanks and all the while acting like a BDK lite with a semi reliable healing.

242

my feedback is I can’t get into monk at all since it came out.
Feels like they designed a panda hero class then called it a base class.

1 Like