Feedback: Monks

In this thread, we’ll be testing and talking about Monks in The War Within. Look here for posts from the development team as adjustments and bugfixes are made throughout the testing period.

Please note that off-topic or inappropriate posts will be strictly removed.

The War Within Beta

All classes’ Hero Talent trees are available for testing. Please keep in mind that this is a Beta environment:

  • There may be UI elements on the talent panel that are placeholder, including things like talent icons, text, or final UI art.
  • Some talents may not be functioning yet, or may be marked as not yet implemented (NYI).
  • Some new spell visuals and audio may still be a work in progress.
  • There are some talents that are not fully tuned yet. This is expected, and we will implement tuning adjustments throughout testing.

The combat design team has two big areas of focus at this time:

  • Finish work on changes to talents, especially wherever Hero Talents still need adjustments.
  • Fix bugs that are blocking testing of new talents.

Working from Feedback

Alpha feedback thus far has been of great benefit to us.

Now that we are entering Beta, our focus on Hero Talent trees is shifting away from reworks and design changes and towards tuning and refining. We want to thank you so much for all the forum posts, videos, and discussions all over the internet. Your feedback and impressions have been invaluable for bringing their identities to life and making them fit into what you love about the classes you play.

We are looking forward to hearing from more of you as you get a chance to try Hero Talents for yourself. We are specifically interested in feedback or impressions on these topics:

  • Hero Talents that you feel are “required” for your spec in a type of content, such as raiding or Mythic+, or that push you towards picking a specific tree. This could be due to damage profile, utility, defensives, or something else.
  • Hero Talent trees that you feel are either too strong or too weak in power level compared to other options.
  • Hero Talents whose functionality is confusing, unclear, or difficult to track during gameplay.
  • Hero Talent choice nodes that you feel could offer more meaningful choices.

Again, Thank You

Feedback throughout the Alpha test was highly impactful on our design of the game, and we look forward to refining every class with you in the Beta. Thank you!

The World of Warcraft Combat Design Team

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Happy to be in the beta! Let me start off this thread with a topic that’s new and dear to my heart… Essence Font.

I strongly disagree with the removal of this spell. It is iconic to the Mistweaver class and has a kick-butt animation and sound effect. Together with Upwelling & Thunder Focus Tea, it’s one of the most satisfying abilities to cat. And even if not “upgraded” by these talents, it’s convenient to have a short-CD spell that you can cast while moving. And then there’s the matter of the Essence Font HOT - it’s so satisfying to see all the little HOTs go out, along with their synergy with Rising Mists & Jadefire Stomp.

I would love to why the dev team is so against Essence Font, because I have thoroughly enjoyed using it this expansion, and will be devastated to see it go.

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Not sure what you did with stagger scaling but we are at 39% with shuffle up at 612 ilvl. that is an ABSURDLY low amount, for reference we were at 67-69% in normal raid gear in season 1 DF

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Now that I’ve gotten the “plea for Essence Font” out of the way, let me say one other thing: Mistweaver, in Dragonflight, is one of the most fun raid healers I’ve ever played. There are so many cool interactions, spell effects, and synergies, that keep the spec feeling dynamic & full of player choice. Please please please preserve this feeling going into dragonflight. Instead of doing a heavy rework, please focus on improving the “fun-factor” gaps in our playstle.

AoE Damage Choices
Our single target damage is, generally speaking, very engaging, especially for a healing class. When it comes to AoE, however… it’s the exact opposite… it’s basically just “spam Spinning Crane Kick”. Now, I love SCK as a spell! But we need at least one other spell to bring into the mix. I’m going to give you a few options below:

  • Option A: Buff the damage of Jadefire Stomp, to make a core damage-dealing rotational ability. Better yet, add a little HOT to it! Maybe we cast it once to get the HOT on our targets, and then do a Spinning Crane Kick after that.
  • Option B: Give us Fists of Fury. It works for Windwalker, it could work for us. You just need to give it a sufficiently long CD and then a fair mana cost.

I much prefer Option A, because I don’t want Mistweaver to get overwhelmed by even more buttons.

Song of Chi-Ji
This is a really fun ability to use, especially in PVP. But let’s be honest, there’s really no situation in which it makes to take it over Ring of Peace. I would put this on a different choice node - maybe the one that buffs Leg Sweep. Or better yet, just give it to us for free; it’s a pretty niche as is… but fun to use!

Chi Wave and Chi Burst
These spells are both (1) boring and (2) pointless to cast. Just remove them already, and replace them with something fun cough Song of Chi-Ji cough.

Mastery & Damage
We need to have some synergy between our mastery & our damage output. This is a problem with healers across the board - by stacking mastery, you actively hurt your damage ouput, which is just… NOT FUN! Please give some sort of basic damage bonus in our mastery, just like tanks have.

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A post was merged into an existing topic: Feedback: The War Within Season 1 Class Sets

Hi, Dragonflight was a super bad exp for brewmaster, and the new changes for Tww are cool, but i have some ideas and wishes:
1 - We have 16% stagger with 610 ilvl, thats super bad, maybe scale issue.
2 - Ox stance is a cool idea, but need a buff, 60% is just too much, we almost never take that much damage in one hit, thats need to be close to 40% and 30% with the talent, or rework, Brewmaster really need help on the defensive side. Brewmaster players want to be tank again, and not take insane amounts of damage and heal a lot, thats make us bad on endgame content and on m+ hight level keys.
3 - We need bether cap talents, all they are not good.
4 - Niuzao needs a rework, it just not worth to use 4 talent points just for some niuzao damage, and niuzao is just super bad on the defensive side.
thank you for the attention

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I agree with all of these points, want to add a couple more

1)Increase the buff duration of Ox stance, right now it is only 15 seconds which is kind of low. Should be at least like 30

2)We need a way to reliably tag mobs from 30yd away. We are the only tank that doesn’t have an instant cast, high threat ability to help with pulling multiple packs.

Before we would use Chi Wave which wasn’t that good but it worked. Since it is a passive ability, we can’t use it anymore. (Pressing jade lightning to pull mobs feels clunky)

I know that Brewmaster has a lot of mobility, but so does DH and they still get to have their Glaive Toss

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First major feedback post

Shado-pan

First big point is Flurry Strikes has the same issue Master of Harmony does in the sense that it’s only good on AoE due to it having damage thresholds, it takes you forever to build stacks (or vitality) on Single Target so this needs to be addressed by giving a generation buff to pure Single Target via a talent possible.

Flurry Strikes needs to have no duration that way it doesn’t just get dropped between pulls especially during travel time or RP, either that or make it a minute or more having it be so short isn’t good in an m+.

Wisdom of the Wall needs to give all the buffs at once or at least 2 of them, one makes it too rng. For this talent the Flurry Strike buff is completely useless since you cannot spend 400 energy within the 20 second window, you’d need to reduce the energy threshold to proc down to 200 for this to be possible.

Against All Odds needs a duration increase, 6 seconds is nothing for how long it takes you to proc Flurry Strikes. Make this 20 seconds at least which will sync with Wisdom of the Walls duration.

Flurry strikes in general is super low impact because of the 3 issues listed above (too high of energy threshold, low duration on agi buff, and low buff duration so can’t keep it up pack-pack)

Aspect of Harmony

Overall I like this tree, it promotes use of chi burst and makes it a strong ability again. However my issue is that it ties a majority of your ST damage to Aspect of Harmony funneling in m+ specifically. What I mean by this is doing a big pull and saving up all of your vitality to dump it onto a boss to do huge single target damage, I think buffing the vitality generation on single target would fix this issue because it takes far too long to build on single target alone so you want to always pull trash on boss to get good vitality generation.

I do love how this tree plays in general and the visuals on it are gorgeous when you press Celestial Brew but those issues need fixed asap imo.

General Issues
Ox Stance again is too high of a threshold, at MAX it needs to be 40% of current hp to proc either that or make it 60% of your hp pre mitigation. Since this can stack to 10 that’s the only way you’d be able to proc it reliably that often.

Elixir of Determination is still non functional, it’s a huge part of our defensive toolkit so it needs fixed asap

Stagger scaling is broken right now and we are leveling in greens level of stagger right now, we should be around 65-67% in normal raid gear but we are at 39%.

Celestial Brew is also pretty low impact right now, at 10 stacks its about a 3rd of our hp in a shield need this to get to around 50%-60% of our hp.

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as a Mistweaver, if I’m stealth-pulling some ranged mobs because I’m asking myself “is this really the pull?” I will use crackling jade lightning to aggro them. Is this not an option for brewmaster? Or is the issue that it isn’t enough threat, and therefore the healer ends up tanking them?

Could be the solution to this issue is increased threat on CJL for tank spec?

I miss being able to toss kegs around like a maniac. :smile:

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I accidentally posted in the wrong section. Anyways, WW monk 4-piece tier set is a dps loss if you try to build up 6 stacks. You will never build to 6 stacks unless you decide to ignore the classes mastery of combot strikes and sit around waiting for energy regen. It doesnt make sense. Tigers palm is too much of a core ability and builder to be treated like a spender

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I agree. They should make CJL have increased threat, and be instant cast.

So I am thinking of 2 different scenarios.


Tagging a mob to start combat with them.

Taunting works but if you want to pull multiple different groups then you have to use CJL. This can feel clunky since you have to stop and channel it for like half a second. Other tanks can just throw a range hit and keep moving


Tagging a faraway mob(mid fight) that has aggro on someone else

If you just taunt a mob and don’t hit it then it will most likely go back to hitting your ally after 3 seconds(Especially if they are pumping). That is why you want to taunt and hit the mob with a strong hit. CJL doesn’t hurt and grants almost no threat.

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Gonna be the oddball and focus on some of the less high priority talents and talk about some of the movement additions and overall gameplay feel. Here are some talents and/or abilities I’d like to talk about:


Celestial Conduit

I’m just going to say that the core concept of the Conduit of the Celestials Hero Talents are pretty neat, and I actually enjoy seeing the celestials more involved in our class theme and gameplay.

As a WW monk, Celestial Conduit is immediately offputting as a channeled ability, and after playing with the talents for a bit, I don’t feel like this is going to change for the better over time. I sometimes think folks will look at big numbers and let that inform their immediate reaction to design choices moreso than the actual gameplay experience, and I just want say that numbers won’t change the fact that having more than one channeled ability as a melee DPS interrupting our other combat options just doesn’t sit well with me. I’d really like to hear what other people think about this, since I’m pretty unsure about it myself.


Lighter Than Air

We got an air dash! Super cool! I don’t love that it’s locked behind roll, but it makes sense from a balance perspective and gives roll value in stopping fall damage. It’s also straight up more movement on a class that already gets around silly fast.

If I had to offer a suggestion, maybe we could have the animation tuned a bit? It currently uses the jump animation (including the variant jumps for different races), and it looks a little off. I’m crazy, it actually uses the running animation.

Still, maybe using the Chi Torpedo animation would work a bit more? Or maybe the underwater running animation for a leaping appearance! I don’t know, just tossing that out there. Really curious how others feel about it.


Rushing Reflexes

Alright, I know the Tiger Palm dash experiment didn’t go exactly as planned in DF, but this feels really weird. I understand the idea, and having it attached to an already existing movement option lessens the burden on having a new button or attaching it to something with regular combat use. However, the dash doesn’t feel entirely predictable all the time in multitarget situations, and it also means rolling through enemies purely for movement (ie. gtfo of fire) will be awkward at best.

I suppose my concern is given how Clash is still its own choice in the node, why can’t we have a similar option to select? There’s still clearly an intent to keep the new dash. I just don’t love how it’s being offered right now.


Beyond that, I really like a lot of the changes so far. Great stuff! Looking forward to seeing all the feedback in the coming weeks!

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Gift of the Ox is also barely healing us, a 4 stack gift didnt even do 60% of my hp on (including s1) this was a guaranteed full heal with overhealing.

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That’s a great point. If the devs are reading this, could you:

  1. for brewmaster only, increase the threat generated by Crackling Jade Lightning
  2. for every spec, make movement not break the channel of Crackling Jade Lightning?

The spell does so little damage, this wouldn’t break balance at all.

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Can you guys make our hero spells and procs more flashy like our artifact weapons spells used to be? Right now it doesnt look hero or special or anything and it is like that for most classes. Also procs from press advantage are still using the visual from the shadowlands paladins covenant.

More feedback on Master of Harmony these are mostly bugs but not sure.

Balanced Stratagem (Master of Harmony talent)
Blackout Kick does not give or consume stacks
Exploding Keg does not give or consume stacks
Chi Burst only gives 1 stack but consumes properly
Spinning Crane Kick does not give or consume stacks
Tiger Palm, Rising Sun Kick, Keg Smash, and Breath of Fire all work and Tiger Palm, Rising Sun Kick, and Keg Smash all work with Overwhelming Force

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The talent where after you roll you jump to your target is funky and I think skyreach should be in its place where when you roll your next tiger palm or blackout kick leaps to the target. The roll teleport does not allow you to jump to neutral monsters and it does not feel good to use. Giving the player the ability to chose the target by pressing a subsequent tiger palm or black out kick is a much better mechanism as getting feedback as to what is 10 yards is difficult from a roll. I think making tiger palm usable on either black out kick or tiger palm would be nice if you have a surplus of chi or if your previous ability happened to be a repeat or so to gain the full effects of your mastery or hit combos.

I would make it so tiger palm and blackout kick does not have a facing the target requirement so that you can use it even when you roll through the targets to snare them if you take that talent. So you roll through and then gain a stack of skyreach and can instantly press tigers palm and whip around to the target.

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Shado-pan is not interesting. I think what I would have done is made it so something triggers a proc that gives a bonus to your kick abilities or your punch abilities. So when you gain this proc which is random between either you need to use either, PUNCHING: Tiger Palm, Whirling dragon punch, fist of fury or strike of windlord or KICKING: blackout kick, spinning crane kick, or rising sun. Make the ability shadowy when used and play a nice sound to it.

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WW tier set is atrocious

In a dungeon setting fully talenting for TP damage you can maybe get it to 4-5% of damage. Overall contribution like 3% or so, which is extremely bad. If you consider the far better talents you lose to buff tiger palm damage its likely an outright damage loss to do this.

So we’re talking a 1.5-3% gain in dungeons for a 4set (lol)

ST its marginally better from the TP damage, but due to order elements you just arent pressing TP in CD’s leading to value loss (but the tier value is so low who cares)

Really should just scrap the idea else youd need to drastically buff the numbers to pretty silly values to make this meaningful

Also - Why does jadefire stomp have a 15s cd vs jadefire fists at 25s? Can rather confidently say there is absolutely 0 reason to ever take jadefire fists

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