Does the passive chi wave still trigger mystic touch? I use with zen pulse on live right now to apply mystic touch when mistweaving at range.
Shado-pan in it’s entirety does not in any way deal 1-2% of your overall damage. Flurry Charges/Strikes themself do an incredibly small amount of damage, but you’re either completely misrepresenting the talent tree or forgetting that you’re gaining the following from the perspective of BrM.
- Permanent 10% haste (bugged, not the best stat, but it’s a lot of stat)
- 10% armour pen
- 15% increased damage for KS, TP, SCK
- 30% increased damage for KS
- Ramping agi (up to 10%) for 7s every 30-40s
- 20% increased critical damage from BOK
- 10% permanent DR
To say that all of those effects are exceptionally potent is an EXTREME understatement.
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In general though, I do agree with many of the complaints that people have w.r.t Flurry Charge stacking being too fast and the direct power of Flurry Charges feeling exceptionally weak. I am also concerned that if we ever hit the energy trigger threshold before we hit the Charge cap reliably on lower or even moderate target counts, we may experience some pretty nasty super-linear scaling, which is definitely something that I’d prefer not having to be concerned about.
5 Likes
This seems to be the case with some other classes as well. My rough theory that has no real basis is that they originally tailored certain hero talent trees to clearly be better for certain specs and now they have the task of making the ‘secondary’ hero talent tree be a viable alternative to the one they designed the spec around
For Shado-pan until the flurry strike “activation” is looked at the tree can’t really ever reach its full potential. I completely agree with the change to make flurry strikes harder to accumulate because sitting at max stacks constantly feels like you are wasting resources and that’s a bad feeling.
However, it has to be harder to gain flurry strikes but also easier to spend them. Having to do 7-8 Tiger Palms doesn’t really make sense since it’s an ability we aernt often hitting, especially in our cooldown windows. The way the tree is set up it makes me think that it’s being designed in a world where we hit Tiger Palm way more often than we do now.
The way Flurry Strikes are accumulated and especially dunked is the biggest problem with the loop. Not only does it feel like it takes ages to hit the energy threshold to dunk them, but it also feels like I’m just “waiting” to dump them and without addons it’s something impossible to track, so you probably just wouldn’t ever. Thats not a great feeling as if it felt like dumping Flurry Strikes actually did something, it’s something that you could plan around and dump into specific mobs to show off player skill this way. In its current form it’s random passive damage you’ll never think about. Great if you enjoy the base Windwalker experience I guess but Conduit offers more meaningful gameplay changes.
2 Likes
simple way to fix flurry strikes => change 400 energy into “spend 20 chis”, makes more sense since we have way more abilities that uses chi instead energy.
The 4pc tiger palm cleave is literally worthless! Does like 0.1% of damage! 4pc overall is practically worthless!
2 Likes
Still doesn’t solve 2 problems. At least on Brew as I havent messed with WW. You can generate 10 stacks literally in like 5 seconds then having to wait 20-30 seconds to spend 400. Secondly, Against all Odds talent says it can stack to 20 based on flurry strikes but you only proc 10 so youll never get to 20 stacks.
1 Like
6/28 WW Monk Feedback
There are several bugs that still remain from the previous time I posted feedback on 6/14 as well as several new bugs that have been discovered. These include:
- Chi resets to 1 at the start of a raid encounter with Combat Wisdom.
- Celestial Conduit’s Flight of the Red Crane hero talent can pull mobs up to 40 yards away that are not in combat with you.
- I’ve been told Courage of the White Tiger can also ninja pull mobs as well. Here is a clip demonstrating this behavior in action: https:// clips. twitch .tv/TriangularBoredHumanHassanChop-OvmcqKJ8JX7O_hN9
- Shado-Pan’s Flurry Strikes reset on pull of dungeon boss encounters.
- Pet damage is not contributing towards generating Shado-Pan’s Flurry Strikes.
- Chi Burst does not heal at all.
- If Chi Burst hits any enemy or ally while you are channeling a spell, the channel is canceled.
- Rushing Jade Wind breaks Combo Strikes several times in its application since Rushing Jade Wind still procs mastery (this would have to be fixed with some tuning adjustments).
- When talented into “Pressure Points” Paralysis will pull the mob when used.
- This behavior severely limits the usefulness of this talent as Paralysis is often used in M+ for skips in combination with Ring of Peace. Please consider changing the soothe effect of Pressure Points to not aggro mobs when used.
Functionality Changes
In addition, there are several talents and spells that could use quality of life changes and adjustments to make them more viable.
- Chi Burst procs should stack to 2.
- Because Chi Burst falls low on the priority list, it feels really bad to not have this available when you need it.
- Celestial Conduit should reset on boss kill/wipe.
- I understand this is working as intended, but I believe the policy on 90 second cooldowns not resetting with bosses should be changed this expansion and this cooldown is a primary reason why.
- Memory of the Monastery shouldn’t completely override older stacks when a lower count stack is used.
- What I mean by this is if you have an 8 stack of this buff and then you use a 1 stack of Teachings of the Monastery, it’ll completely override the 8 stack. I believe this is working as intended but makes this talent less satisfying as a result.
Shado-Pan
I agree with the many others in the thread that have mentioned something needs to be done about the Flurry Strikes mechanic and spending.
However, I think that something also needs to be done about the defensive nodes present in the Shado-Pan tree. All of these are virtually useless for Windwalker Monks in PvE.
Hopefully you guys can figure out how to make Flurry Strikes work well as it feels really bad to effectively have 1 Hero Talent option this close to expansion launch.
Energy Economy
Another thing that has been a common complaint I’ve noticed is that people really don’t like how ‘energy starved’ they feel. Part of this is due to whiplash from the resource flood we had in Dragonflight, but there are some legitimate points about utility spells such as Paralysis or Detox costing energy. When it comes to Detox in particular, there is an outlandish possibility that as a Shado-Pan monk you’d spam Detox between pulls in order to get CDR from Efficient Training. It also just feels bad to be ‘punished’ rotationally for using your utility spells to help your team succeed.
I think a major part of this is there is no direct resource node at the bottom of the tree whatsoever. There are many nodes that act as pseudo-resource nodes like Emperor’s Capacitor and the various nodes that give haste, but it isn’t the same. I do think we’re too late in the game to be changing these talents up but perhaps a minor rebalance that gives a little bit more energy to play with would be welcome such as buffs to Inner Peace or Ascension.
Bottom Right of the Tree Needs BIG Help
This is a consistent point I’ve harped on ad nauseum in my feedback posts during the Alpha and Beta. Currently, Jadefire Stomp and all of its nodes as well as I’d say Communion with Wind and Darting Hurricane are all extremely lackluster compared to other capstone options. So much so that you would never consider picking these at any point in time.
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Communion with Wind is lackluster because the damage contribution of Strike of the Windlord itself is low.
- I’d imagine this is due to the fact that there are 3 other potential effects added to it that increase its damage contribution. However, since Communion with Wind directly buffs the damage of Strike of the Windlord itself, it is not useful.
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Darting Hurricane feels like a half-baked idea.
- It sounds cool in theory, but it doesn’t have great synergy with the node that precedes it and doesn’t increase your damage at all with the design of it. This is especially worrying as there aren’t any tuning knobs that could make this useful.
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Jadefire Stomp needs a major facelift.
- While the initial rework of Jadefire Stomp in the Alpha was semi-promising, there hasn’t been any work done since to make this talent work in this new reworked WW kit. As a result, it feels entirely out of place and won’t see play with its current (abysmal) tuning.
As always, thank you for reading and I hope we get to see some much needed big changes soon.
11 Likes
9-10 minutes, that’s how long it takes for Renewing Mist to heal a tank from 0-100% Health…….it’s only use is for Vivify cleave. Buff or delete it.
1 Like
Question better monk players.
I know on live with MW, using Tiger Palm twice on Stomp would cause your Blackout Kick icon to glow, letting you know it will reset Rising Sun Kick.
Now on Beta, I think it still works that way Blackout Kick doesn’t glow so I’m not 100% sure if that’s still happening or I’m just thinking it still works that way.
I ask because, at least for me it made the little combo of Tiger Palm > Tiger Palm > Rising Sun Kick > Blackout Kick > Rising Sun Kick feel natural and when I’m on Beta it just kinda feels…not?
Devs, don’t listen to this guy.
RM isn’t meant to solo heal someone like that. It never was. WTF are you actually talking about
7 Likes
Can anyone explain why flurry strikes is deal damage to get charges then spend energy to activate them? Why isn’t it just spend energy to generate flurry strikes and when you get 10 they activate? Or have a button to activate them? I know button is unlikely but 400 energy is a pretty static amount of time depending on haste. Do they only want good players to hit 10 stacks every 400 energy? Dealing damage and having a set energy spent seems very counterintuitive especially when you consider the dps disparity between AOE and single target.
Whirling Dragon Punch is not castable during Heart of the Jade Serpent!
Make the buff allow for WDP to be castable whenever!
1 Like
Currently, Press the Advantage, is not competitive with Weapons of Order. It’s not even a choice for Shadow-Pan monks.
Devs pls buff or change this to be competitive with WoO. Thanks
1 Like
Reduce the threshold to spend flurry strikes, it’s way too high for how little benefit you get from it. 200-250 energy would be fine tbh
2 Likes
Just wanted to say I’m still crushed over the removal of Essence Font, as well as the missing synergy of Jadefire Stomp without it.
2 Likes
Been testing a bit more with Shado Pan as WW, less focused on damage and more on presence.
Adding to the pile to say Shado Pan lacks any real impact on the visual and audio side of things. It procs rather infrequently, and I rarely ever notice it at all. This may simply be the issue of active vs. passive hero talent additions at work, and that’s certainly worth its own discussion.
For now, my main suggestion is to up the frequency of Shado Pan’s flurry procs within the rotation. It’s just too little addition to the flow of WW or BrM as it stands. Without an active button, it barely feels like an accessory to the core class.
3 Likes
Good riddance to it.
2 Likes
Really curious what synergy you think jadefire stomp is “missing.”
1 Like
Rising Sun Kick and Mistweavers
A lot of power has been given to Rising Sun Kick over Mistweaver’s lifetime, with The War Within continuing this trend with Crane Style and talents throughout both Hero Talent Trees. With raid testing underway, a pain point with this ability has been made really clear; how painful missing casts of it can be to melee-centric builds. This single ability has so many effects that are tied to it including:
- Crane Style - Additional Mastery events to help healing while playing these types of builds.
- Uplifted Spirits - While not the biggest contributor to Revival/Restoral’s cooldown reduction, it also doesn’t rely on having to critically strike, giving you a baseline amount of CDR you can expect from pressing RSK.
- Lifecycles - Consuming one buff and being able to proc Vivify’s half of this ability allows for more stacks of Mana Tea.
- Rapid Diffusion - Creation of more Renewing Mists for Vivify/Invigorating Mists healing on your raid.
- Invoke Chi-Ji - While not tied solely to Rising Sun Kick, being able to gain the effects of this list while contributing to Chi-Ji’s healing can’t be left unsaid.
- Pool of Mists - Lowering the CD of ReM and, in turn, having its own cooldown reduced has been extremely fun to play around with during raid testing. Thinking ahead on how to order abilities (especially with Heart of the Jade Serpent cooldown reduction in effect) has been incredibly rewarding.
- Ancient Teachings - In situations where either there’s one enemy or one ally being injured, RSK turns into a phenomenal healing button because of the splitting healing portion of this effect not counting 100% health targets.
- Rising Mist - This is the big one. Healing all players with our HoT effects active is nice for the amount it does heal, but extending those HoTs is the larger contributor of this talent, as it allows for greater coverage for ReM & Vivify healing and the incidental Enveloping Mist.
With all of these effects tied to this one ability, missing casts feels SO incredibly punishing and disruptive to healing. While a lot of this can be solved with encounter knowledge, there’s still moments where we’re forced out of melee range because of mechanics foisted on us, or simply the boss going through a transition and we’re left with healing that still needs to be done, but our efficacy is steadily decreasing.
If Rising Sun Kick had another charge (potentially granted through Pool of Mists or Rising Mist, to help evoke the Warlords of Draenor version of Pool of Mists), it would give us some breathing room for these moments, while making it a much less rigid ability to use in moment-to-moment gameplay.
10 Likes