[FEEDBACK] Level Squishing

I know this is controversial, but Blizzard needs to stick with the vertical progression. Adopting horizontal progression even if on a yearly short term basis via stat squishing will push the philosophy more and more toward entire world scaling and paragon levels like that of ESO.

For me personally, i like the idea that i have earned every single level. The Classic experience will make it that much more apparent.

I, for one, enjoyed my DPS meter hitting millions in Legion. Perhaps it looks bad to some, but it really showed off how powerful we were.

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id much prefer they spend their time and dollars on max level content and not how many times the number next to my name changes.

they say they want leveling to seem more meaningful… i have a fix for that. stop with the mob scaling, which completely negates the feel of any increase of power when you level. just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.

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I’m all for the squish. I get that people are concerned that the numbers will get screwed up, but honestly, that’s gone happen with or without it come next expansion.

Considering where the game is currently, getting to max level is when the game really starts anyways so I could care less if I’m lvl 60 or 600 since ilvl, io score, and AOTC are the only real metrics people seem to care about.

It would require a massive effort and the testing would take months. I mean they haven’t pulled off a ilvl squish yet without some kind of issues, now imagine them trying to rebalance the entire game but with half the levels?

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If they put it on PTR then they already put a ton of work into it and it’s going into the game. Rarely do I ever see them remove something put onto the PTR. It’s already been heavily tested internally by that point. The PTR would be for fixing bugs and just general feedback by then.

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I don’t find the level squishing idea very appealing at all - I would like to see the return of the traits for the heirlooms to be the way that they were when we spent all of the time earning the ability to get them - we could level faster with our heirlooms and if we wanted to stay in an area longer, just twink it - my biggest issue is with “rep” - so much is hinged on rep grinding if we want the perks with those reps.

Scaling is okay but still needs to be tweaked in some areas of the game, some areas the scaling is done so that it is tied to the gear that you’re using - Draenor is almost impossible to get through some areas or do some of the quests - the stables mount training for instance needs some work.

I hope this makes sense, I’m half asleep and hope that someone can understand what I am trying to say.

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People dont like progression that is tied to content. Look at any wf/tf thread.

I get why they are talking about it and it could happen. I personally am not a fan of it because I like seeing how far I have progressed since the beginning. The leveling goes fast. Squishing levels is actually going to make leveling feel slower imo. Fitting 7 expansions plus Vanilla to all hit level 60 as max is a huge squish and even though technically leveling will be the same amount of time, it just seems like it will be slow going. I mean Vanilla was 1-60. What is going to be then 1-20? So that huge continent for Vanilla all that questing and to only get to 20 seems bad.

WoW doesn’t get tons of brand new players I bet. But if I were brand new and saw max level at 120, at first for maybe a second it would seem overwhelming, but for me I would be like, “I have a LOT of content to see and hours of entertainment. Let’s do this!” vs WOW? Only 60 levels for Vanilla and 7 expansions? That doesn’t seem like a lot. Maybe it is just me who would feel that. /shrug

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…this. Even if it wouldn’t BE slower in total time played to cap, it would FEEL slower as you went. I don’t think that would be better for those of us used to the current cap.

…new players, perhaps; they wouldn’t know the difference. I personally would not like it.

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More new things as you levels. As it stands, many classes go from 80 to 120 without gaining any skills outside of talents one. That sucks.

If Blizzard didn’t expect the FIRESTORM of outrage when they took away a few portals, they better brace themselves if the start taking away something someone worked for hours to attain.

The level squish. Followed by the Subscription squish. Followed by the Revenue squish. If they can take away levels, the outraged players can cancel subscriptions and take back their $15 / month they’re paying while Blizzard tries to figure out what the heck they’re trying to do.

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I have mixed feelings about this. It already felt pretty bad when I hit an ilvl benchmark this expansion that was identical to one I had to hit in Cataclysm to get into raiding 8+ years ago at this point. Idk if I’m ok with them doing a level squish too unless this is the first and last time that they do it.

Like ESO isn’t a perfect MMO by any means, but one thing they actually did right imo was that they set their level cap at 50 and they haven’t budged on that. After that you used to get Veteran Ranks at endgame (which has since been replaced by a Champion points system). I think Blizzard needs to set their level cap back to level 60 or 100 and come up with something else for endgame progression like other games have and set themselves up for the future.

I started playing when lvl 70 was cap, and over the years have watched it jump to 80, 85, 90… until now we’re at 120. A level squish all but kills the more than decade worth of growth the characters have had. I mean we’ve already had 2 stat squishes. Now my lvl 120 mage that’s defeated titans, Slayed dragons, killed old gods, is going to be lvl 50 in patch 9.0? I’d hate it. The lack of something… anything, when dinging a level is due to pruning that has happened over the years. Pruning for “button bloat” is a good thing, I hate having 8+ buttons needed for a class to work correctly, but that said, you can’t prune without replacing something to fill those holes. Which is what happened.

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Not in favor of this at all. I don’t care how they dress it up, a squish would be taking away levels that have been earned.

It’s already frustrating enough that iLvls and stats got squished. What’s next? Everyone gets nerfed back to level 1 and all their epic gear turns common at the beginning of all future expansions? No. No thanks.

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I see the benefits of a squish… my main concern, as someone still playing older parts of the game for the 1st time is how this would impact questing through old continent.

There needs to be a better mechanic than shutting xp off and back on and back off - esp with a squish… as it would be needed every what? 5-10 levels if you wanted to stay in the content you were trying to play?

As far as the squish itself goes, I like the idea of more character progression throughout the leveling experience. On a monk for example, by 60 I have all my skills except the teleport and mastery, and only 3 talent choices throughout the later part of the game… that’s 1/2 the game with almost nothing.

I think this was managed to some extent by using things like tier sets, artifact weapons, and now the azerite system… but there is too much space between them now. There is nothing to work from a character perspective for way too many levels - and it makes churning xp a bit boring.

An alternative to a squish would be to revamp the character progress system to make it actually engaging - or introduce an alternative method to add to character progression while leveling (like a low level Legion type legendary system, re-introduce artifact weapon skills even if they are nerfed and passives)… something, anything to break up the game play between 60 and 110…

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I am absolutely against it and will be done with this game after over a decade if they do any level squishing. I could CARE LESS about people’s leveling experience. I leveled 13 (soon to be 16) characters to 120. It’s no more of a chore now than it ever was. You want a more meaningful experience? Don’t wear heirlooms. You will constantly get better gear and it will be more rewarding.

This isn’t about the leveling experience. This is about the devs inability to keep numbers from getting away exponentially when they add 10 levels per xpac.

I don’t want to hear any more about the level experience. Repeat, that’s not what this is about. People have mentioned other options to keep the max level from getting too high like paragon levels. Let’s talk about that.

I have said a few times before that I would quit this game and have a few times but a level squish would be it for me permanently. Squishes feel bad and I’m tired of feeling bad doing something that is supposed to be fun. I leveled my characters to 120 and if you take that away or diminish it any more than it has been, see ya.

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Too hard to give feedback on really, because we know nothing about how it would happen or when and where changes would come.

All I’ll say, is 120 levels just numerically is too many.
They should change this, but there are WAY bigger problems with leveling that don’t involve arbitrary numbers.

If it were up to me, step 1 is not increasing the level cap next expansion, and then completely redesigning how leveling works from the ground up.

Squishing the number on levels is nice, but if it doesn’t actually change anything then the number, then don’t waste the time. Will probably cause a dozen of issues more than it would fix, because… I’m not sure what it WOULD fix other than psychological issues.

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I disagree entirely that they should keep past expansions and just bring the level cap down to 60 and revamp the whole experience on a fundamental level.

They don’t have to get rid of the older expansions - make it all optional for players to still obtain those rewards. The reason I suggest this is because the story in World of Warcraft is already so fractured; new players who aren’t interested in Raiding will always have no context for why they’re doing what they’re doing when the story is presented in the way that it currently is.

So bring the cap down to 60, and just expand on the story at 60 and offer alternative means of improving characters from that point on - each new Expansion following would still introduce new and fresh content for players to go through, maybe even optional alternative leveling paths from 1 - 60 - but the focus would remain on expanding the story and content at 60 to give players more to do once they reach the cap.

WOW This sounds just like - VANILLA!!!

Blizzard is moronic if that is the logic they are using. I am done!

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Honestly I wouldn’t mind lowering it to 80 or so. Give us enough room to earn access to different expansion’s zones and do them if we want to (giving them all up front might be overwhelming). Make levels mean something and be exciting.

I think the only time getting a level up is exciting anymore is when you hit the level cap and can play “for real”. That’s a problem.