And if you do Delves, put Brann on healing, his potions will heal both you and your pet.
9 Likes
Yeah, I was eyeballing the PTR tree and felt more and more like crap as I continued reading through the talents.
Undermine(d) was already going to be awful with all the goblin-themed stupidity, now I will likely not even get to play my hunter for it, either, when the spec I enjoy playing has all the fun siphoned out of it.
11 Likes
Is it easier with a pet? Yes, of course it is. You are completely correct on that and I’m not arguing that you’re wrong. But, I would hardly call it a struggle to do a delve without a pet
This is something with pets its self. I play BM, and have mobs just ignore my pets completely, or will change to me when they use range spells, even with MS on my pet. Even with my pet I have to use snares, and traps for crowd control.
That one of the issues I see with MM not having a pet is when too many npcs are pulled, or those that just are immune to CC.
5 Likes
This is just their caster design philosophy. I didn’t play Shadowlands or Dragonflight, so I’m not sure exactly when this nonsense began, but it’s the same way for m+ content: caster mobs will turn and free cast on whoever they want, regardless of tank aggro. It’s obnoxious.
1 Like
for you maybe champion, might be a bit understanding not everyone is as amazing and skilled as you and they need a pet class to help that, Hunter was that for then, all three specs, and there is no need or reason to reroll
8 Likes
Yeah they’ve tried to balance that for years. Its never worked. Thats why they are ditching it.
2 Likes
It’s worked just fine. What are you talking about?
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I want to hear some players who like the changes on the PTR explain to me how Marks Hunter is better off on the PTR than what we have on live.
And I’m looking for more than “The rotation plays better” because ‘rotation’ is only one part of the overall game play experience.
Unless someone can explain how PTR is OVERALL better than live, here is how I see the spec on the PTR:
Bad Changes
No pet I can use to do ‘pet’ stuff. (utility/functionality and can also be fun uses)
No Barrage. (fun)
No Wailing Arrow. (fun)
Good Change
Rotation (game play - supposedly better?)
So, lets ask this important question…
Why does the rotation being improved require we lose pets?
Answer - It doesn’t. Nor does the theme need to be changed after 20 years.
According to Bliz in their blue post, the whole issue is that supposedly MM hunters abandon the use of a pet to get damage. (lone wolf)
Sure, in some scenarios, mainly where you wanted to do the same damage as having a pet, but without having to manage your pet and keep it from dying so that your damage didn’t go down.
That sounds like Blizzard’s fault to me by ever introducing Lone Wolf, not the players fault for using what they gave us.
MM players were going to keep using their pets just fine until you introduced that talent in what, 2014?
Do I have the date right?
That’s 10 years of MM hunters NOT using it, as it didn’t exist, and they never complained about using a pet, because pet was part of the hunter class fantasy.
But after it was introduced? If you can tuck away your pet and keep it safe and do the same damage in a raid or PvP and then bring it out when you need it, of course players are going to do that. Of course they are.
But that didn’t mean they didn’t want a pet.
So after a lot of thought on this change, I’ve come to a conclusion… This is a nerf disguised as a re-work.
Regardless if it is an intentional nerf or not, the end result is that this is FACTUALLY a nerf to overall game play. It just is.
Simply put, your MM Hunter can do MORE on live than you can on the PTR.
Additionally, solo content is easier on live than it is on the PTR.
Am I the player supposed be be excited for these nerfs because my rotation plays better??
12 Likes
I invite you to consider the tone of your post.
It’s not helpful.
You come across as a jerk by saying the other person’s concerns makes them ‘bad at the game’.
Maybe you’re the best hunter in the world, and anyone who doesn’t play at your level is ‘bad’.
Or maybe you’re insecure and trying to make your self seem better by tearing others down. I don’t know. The point is I think any person in these forums knows what ‘bad at the game’ really looks like (playing one handed, just mashing buttons or clicking, not knowing what anything does, etc…), and I seriously doubt the person you were speaking to falls into that category.
11 Likes
The hell of it is, it doesn’t play better. The new rotation feels awful. Slow, far more stationary, far more time spent casting the most boring spell in the game. And as you noted, a lot of just plain fun abilities gone. I love the crap out of wailing arrow! Oh and a far worse version of trueshot. Like if the new spec design was super fun, I could imagine forcing myself to play petless. But it just isn’t. There’s nothing new and exciting coming in to justify it.
14 Likes
Well, I was playing devil’s advocate and speaking from a stance that the change accomplishes it’s goal.
To me? I feel like you. It feels bad on PTR. However, I’m not ‘hunter Jesus’ and maybe I didn’t use the right talents, or play it correctly.
I just wanted to say that if we assume they succeeded in their goal of making the rotation better, why did we have to trade away so much for that supposed improvement.
15 Likes
I’ll disagree hard there, and I wonder if you even really understood the changes.
You are not meant to just cast Aimed Shot, you are meant to play with the Streamline and Moving Target bonuses so when you do cast Aimed Shot it’s faster and buffed. There’s a ton of new interactions that provide Streamline, and it can stack up to 2 times.
I played it soloing rares in Siren Isle and it not only felt very functional, it was pretty satisfying.
4 Likes
That’s still just casting aimed shot. And it’s multiple talents all just providing that one same buff. That is boring as hell. And that reduced cast time only brings it down to what it currently is. And what else are they giving us for all they’re taking away? Why take away something like wailing arrow? A cool ability that wouldn’t detract from this new aimed shot centric design at all.
10 Likes
Which MM Hunter has been doing for what how many years?
Really, complaining about casting Aimed Shot feels like you never really liked MM. It’s pretty much the spec’s main perk.
2 Likes
The live version is a much faster cast time, and we have lots of other abilities to choose from. But you know this already because you’ve read my posts. You’re just being disingenuous.
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I kind of agree here on getting rid of wailing arrow. I liked building up to wailing arrow. It’s not that big of a difference rotation wise, but it was satisfying to have something to build up toward.
If we’re getting rid of the dark ranger flavor from the talent trees (we should when we have an entire hero spec called dark ranger), then why not bring back Windburst from our Legion artifact? Since the whole concept of MM is going to be generating and spending precise shots to build and then spend streamline, why not have it be tied to amount of streamline stacks consumed?
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No, you are. My actions bars are pretty much the same in Live and PTR. Which buttons have they removed? Wailing Arrow is something that replaces Aimed Shot after you have fired it 10 times and is still casted. Serpent Sting was a passive tied to Aimed Shot.
I’ll miss Wailing Arrow because it was cool, but it didn’t make the rotation much different. I’ll also miss Trueshot, the new version is not as fun to press. But these are such minor complains that they feel like aversion to change rather than evaluation of the changes. Yes, Aimed Shot is slower, but also hits harder, and you can accumulate 40% casting time reduction and 60% damage bonus on top of it, making it as fast if not faster than live while hitting way harder.
2 Likes
no these people are right we should move away from aimed shot as the MM signature spell. give MM an instant cast shot that applies a bleed to the target. and make it so that bleed can stack up to 3 times. what if the bleed also increased your pets attack speed?
7 Likes
FEEDBACK TO BLIZZARD:
Some notes of mine after experiencing the PTR for a bit:
Spotting Eagle Customization
Allow us to change the model of the eagle to any elligible pet in our stable. I want a white eagle, some other players may want a raven, or albatross, or falcon, or hawk, or owl, or a vulture, or a parrot. Better yet if there’s more than birds available: allow us to choose a bat, or pterrorsaur, for instance.
I know not every flying beast model will be adjustable to replace the Spotting Eagle, but several models share the eagle’s skeleton, and some others may be close enough to be allowed.
Marksmanship Solo/Tanking capabilities
I know this will be a point of contention, so I have three different suggestions for Blizzard to pick one (if any):
- First suggestion: a skill or talent that summons the eagle to tank a mob for a bit.
– Pros: keeps the new spec fantasy, requires skill, solves the soloing problem.
– Cons: Is not your chosen pet, it’s not as easy to manage as a tanking pet
– Example:
Harassing Tactics
Instant, 20s Cooldown
Your Spotting Eagle descends to taunt and attack your target for 10 seconds. Spotting Eagle attacks cause no damage but can interrupt activities that are disrupted by normal attacks. The eagle can be affected by crowd control effects, and won’t apply Spotter’s Mark as long as Harassing Tactics is active.
-
Second suggestion: You can summon your pet, but that disables the entire pet-based toolkit (plus the new Spotter’s Mark mechanic) to avoid double-dipping.
– Pros: you get your pet and can do solo stuff at your heart’s content.
– Cons: Far worse toolkit, needs to dismiss pet for competitive play, more prone to bugs and exploits due to having to adjust the disabling of several skills and talents. -
Third suggestion: You can summon a pet, you get a damage penalty and the pet comes without family and spec skills to avoid double-dipping (pet keeps taunt, charge and basic attack).
– Pros: You get your pet and can do solo stuff at your heart’s content; keeps the new spec toolkit, easier to implement than the second suggestion (you only disable pet abilities).
– Cons: It’s still a worse alternative for competitive play, but good enough for solo content.
Of these, I feel the third one would be the best compromise with the least amount of potential issues. The first one is also doable and fits with the new spec fantasy, while also making the Spotting Eagle more visible, but will not please many players.
Improve Beast Master visuals
I had not touched Beast Master in ages. When I respec’ed into it it still had my BfA action bars, lol. So, this feedback is not meant for balance or anything, but rather about the “feel” and the visuals of the spec.
So, I decided to play it a bit just to see how it’s nowadays. The last time I played it in any meaningful capacity was in Legion, but the “Zoo keeper” feel of having two beasts and summoning more beasts just didn’t appeal to me. I tried playing it a bit both in PTR and Live, trying to recreate the “classic hunter” feeling. So, I followed a few rules:
- Invest in Shots, so I took things like Cobra Sense, Barbed Scales, Serpentine Rhythm, Barrage, Scent of Blood,
- Avoid any kind of beast summoning
- Dark Ranger hero talents.
My impressions:
- 2 pets do feel a bit crowded and unpleasing, but in PTR the 1-pet options felt a lot more like old school hunter
- With the right talents you can be way more active, feeling like you are in charge and not just assisting your pet.
- It’s very functional and fun, all things considered. I don’t know about how competitive going this route is, but this feedback is not about balance.
- The biggest letdown for BM isn’t rotation, it’s visuals.
- Cobra Shot feels repetitive, it would be cool if when you have max stacks of Serpentine Rythm its button flared up and its visuals changed into something cooler.
- Since Serpent Sting is no longer fired by any spec, you could use Serpent Sting’s visual for either the basic Cobra Shot or the max stack one.
- Barbed Shot is huge for the rotation, but visually it’s very uninteresting, it feels like you are shooting a needle. Improving its visual both so the shot itself feels impressive and the frenzy it causes on the pet was noticeable would make the overall feel of the spec much better. Also, in PTR there’s a talent that gives it 30% chance to explode on hit, but the explosion is barely visible. That could be improved as well.
- Currently, Barbed Shot use the same visual as Steady Shot. If you want to replace it with another existing visual, I suggest using Rapid Fire’s, except of course it shoots a single projectile.
- For the Poisoned Barbs talent that causes a explosion, I’d suggest checking if you can’t reuse some Assassination Rogue visuals. I think there’s some usable poison explosions for that.
- Cobra Shot feels repetitive, it would be cool if when you have max stacks of Serpentine Rythm its button flared up and its visuals changed into something cooler.
I think overall the spec played way better than I first expected, and it felt better in PTR despite its biggest change there being the single-pet talent option and the Barbed Shot explosion.
3 Likes