Except:
Blizz’s own design statement is the exact opposite of what you said. The Spotting Eagle is a non-traditional pet, that will become more of a pet over time. In short, they are making MM dependent on a pet - the Eagle. And only that pet. MM is not “truly petless”, but a mono-pet spec with no player influence on that.
Regular pet damage is insignificant enough that you could probably keep the rework eagle and also let marks keep its regular pet. You’d free up talent space for cunning/ferocity and also re normalize ms.
If this is something that people are just not gonna let go, that feels like a realistic solution, because the eagle thing is pretty ingrained into the new marks rework. Again there’s just so much good to talk about and it’s sad that this one detail is taking up so much space.
Did you even read the changes coming and that the Streamline effect is going to be utilized far more often?
Question: DO you consider the pets that warlocks have while casting true pets? Are they in the game space or out of the game space?
So you understand, not the summon pets that are like hunter pets, but the pets that are summoned when conditions are met.
They’re already making BL baseline so that solves one “friction” point. Then, if you still choose to summon a pet, you lose Mortal Wounds on Aimed Shot, and you lose out on Cunning/Tenacious talent in favor of whatever pet family your pet belongs to. Then also apply a percentage decrease in damage done to make up for having a pet.
Just let us keep our pets instead of repeatedly trying to rip them out of the spec.
It still leaves out people who want the archer fantasy, which is a lot of people myself included. If they want to make pets optional, I’m completely down with that, but it needs to be optional and not “optional as long as you don’t want xyz”.
That’s what my idea is. If you don’t choose a pet, then you get everything as stated in the rework. If you do choose a pet, then you get a few things cut out plus a damage debuff to make up for having a pet out.
I have no idea, I don’t play warlock and I don’t find their gameplay or aesthetic appealing.
So that you understand, Warlocks pets that come out during a spell or certain condition is considered not I the game space. Even though they are part of the Warlock pets, they are not a Game Space pet. They are an extension of the spell being cast.
This is what the Eagle will be. It will be an extension of MM spells/talents much how Warlocks, Priests, Shamans (non talented Elementals), and yes Dark Rangers pets are.
It will then allow the Hunter to have more spells and talent tuned more efficiently because the pet will not be in the game space, it will simply be a spell or talent.
Will be interesting to see how this all pans out, but the direction does indeed make sense on paper.
are you referring to like, the dreadstalkers and imps, or something else? i’m not super familiar with what all warlock has
Why?
If Blizzard can do this for BM, there is zero reason they can’t do this for MM:
Their vision for BM is 2 pets, but can opt for one. They need a pet to function. MM does not and clearly with the MM changes, their vision for it’s fantasy is reimagining how MM interacts with their companion via HOW the eagle functions while largely being a petless spec in the traditional sense.
Very few people would use something that makes them weaker. If traditional pets stay, it’s the pet’s throughput that should be minimized, not the player’s. And if your solution is to make the player weaker like that, go back to the drawing board.
What do you think happens when MM Hunters use a pet now? Then there’s similar stuff like Single-Minded Fury for Fury Warriors. Should Blizzard add more safety rails and get rid of every non-optimal choice? Why even have talent trees at that point?
That isn’t how the eagle is being envisioned or being shared. And yes, those are ‘pets’ as far as I 'm concerned.
And let me reiterate: I. do. not. want. it. No pets. No pet animations. Nothing. I do not want them, for me, at all. Period. No negotiations.
It turns the eagle into a pet that functions exactly as BM, you command it to do a thing as part of your rotation. The only difference is it doesn’t have it’s own stats or pathing.
Twiddling my thumbs here waiting to give actual feedback PTR update soon please and thank you
Ugh this again? I have you ignored but felt compelled to reply. I explained this before. Going from Lone Wolf to a pet isn’t going 100% to 95%. The talent INCREASES your damage 5%. Bringing a pet out brings your back to your normal baseline. That’s the point of the talent, more player throughput for going petless. Running a pet isn’t putting you below your baseline. jfc.
Single-minded fury is used by roughly 5% of warriors and is 20% behind Titan’s Grip in damage. If you want to nerf yourself by that much go ahead, but to me it sounds like a poorly designed talent kept in the game because the warrior community complained so much about it (use to be a warrior main).
And yes, if the non-optimal choices are as egregious as SMF and TG then the devs should take a look at making it more compelling or getting rid of it. /reignored
Agreed. I love the changes they’ve proposed, including moving utility away from the pet. I just don’t want to see the complete removal of Call Pet.
People wouldn’t be using anything. It’s a different playstyle entirely, and people choose to play something suboptimal because it’s more fun all the time.
You are misunderstanding me. I don’t want traditional pets to stay as-is. I want the 11.1 changes announced so far. I want the default to be petless. What I am suggesting is that everything Blizzard has proposed happens, except the complete removal of Call Pet.
Instead, nerf the pets since we don’t need their utility, and nerf our damage if we use a pet since we want to keep petless as the higher damage option. Nerfing the pet damage would make it more difficult for the pet to keep aggro, and it makes sense that it would be harder to hit a sniper shot from long range with a giant beast between you and your target.
What makes you think this? MM is balanced relative to other rdps assuming Lone Wolf is active. Not having Lone Wolf is, in fact, 5% worse than the baseline you are expected to be. The pet makes up most of that 5% on a single target, but has zero AoE, so Lone Wolf remains the default (and optimal) choice.
Why? It’s okay for things to not be optimal. If somebody wants to dual wield shortswords that are appropriate sized for the character rather than greatswords the size of a dining room table, knowing that they are losing DPS by doing so, why does that bother you?
I don’t think anybody in any of the feedback threads so far has said pets should do equal damage to petless. I have seen people who don’t really care about the damage so long as it can tank.
Yes. Again. Because you refuse to understand what it is I’m asking for.
We’re balanced around having LW. Not around having our pet out. So LW is effectively already our baseline.
Like, it’s just a silly idea in the first place. Why would they balance us around 100% when they know most people are going to choose 105%? That’d defeat the purpose of their balancing.
Fun. That’s a thing. Do you remember fun? As in not doing everything because some spreadsheet somewhere told you to do it that way? Some people are going to do things the non-optimal way because they like it that way. Because they have more fun that way. But I guess a stick in the mud like you would never know anything about that. So go right back to “ignoring” me until you decide to respond to me again anyway.
Well it’s using a pet or not. As you described, using a pet would make you 5% weaker. That’s a hard sell. SMF buffs your damage by 20% and it’s still WAY behind TG.
Can only understand you based on what you write. The devs artificially increase tank threat all the time, just do that with pets regardless of the actual damage number or lack thereof.
Lone Wolf is a talent that increases damage by 5%. A choice. What’s the point of the talent if it’s assumed you are taking it and you are balanced against other specs based on that assumption. If your crit chance is 30% and you take a talent that increases your crit chance by 5%. That is 5% ADDED to your baseline of 30% making it 35%. Not taking the talent keeps you at 30%, not below that. Literally the same as how Lone Wolf functions. You have a baseline of dealing 100% of your normal damage. Taking Lone Wolf will increase the amount of damage you do and not taking it isn’t a 5% nerf. It just keeps you at your baseline. Pets are about a 2-3% single target damage increase.
I said if that’s what they want to do, then go for it. What I said was if there are non-optimal choices that are so egregious as the difference between SMF and TG, it should be looked at, changed or tossed out. The main fix for this that has been said countless times is for Titan’s Grip, make it possible to xmog 1h weapons on 2h weapons since the main point of SMF is the look of it.
My suggestion was if they go with the proposed Eagle changes AND keep traditional pets, then pets should do nearly zero damage and just function by using growl/artificial threat that keeps your target in place. That was in response to someone else who wants both things. I personally do not want traditional pets on MM. Any time I’ve played MM since the introduction of Lone Wolf, I have not used a pet whenever possible which is most of the time. Pet behavior is wonky as hell. I’ve seen ZERO feedback at improving it with the feedback to 11.1 outside of myself.
That’s like, literally, the entire reason this thread exists. Because they assume so many people take the talent for the damage boost it provides that they’re going to rework the entire spec around having the talent baked in.