No, pets should be a utility asset. They shouldn’t be required for dps, but absolutely should have an integral role in other utility. Tanking, CCs, mob positioning, trash aggro and round up, add in dispels and maybe a blood pact/defensive CD. MM hunters should do the damage themselves but use pets for all the other common abilities that other classes without pets have in their toolkits.
You can still do that. You can do that now
3 Likes
Bm tier set does awful damage. Mutagen was about 0.6% of my DPS and the set is currently consuming my charges of barbed shot whenever you proc a Jackpot. The 200% barbed shot can also be overwritten by a non 200% barbed shot
1 Like
it’s not like legion at all. it’s very similar to live except you sometimes buff your next aimed shot.
1 Like
Lock and Load having a horrible proc rate intentionally because of the tier set while ALSO having the rotation’s smoothness being built around proccing lock and load might be the most contradictory design I’ve seen for this spec in a while.
5 Likes
“we think it is only right that Marksmanship Hunters be able to continue to traverse Azeroth with their beloved companions.”
I wanted to give a HUGE thank you to everyone at Blizzard for listening. Thank you for allowing me to continue playing the game I love with the pet that has meant so much to me. Really and truly, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart.
17 Likes
So, in addition to the previous points (linked in the quote above), some more thoughts on BM. Sorry to divide it into multiple posts, but I’m a newbie at BM and still learning its perks:
- Reading some guides on BM, there are certain talents that are never suggested for any build, like Scent of Blood (which costs 2 points, BTW), Barrage, Training Expert, and Explosive Venom. I mean, if a talent is not suggested in any case, be it AoE, Single Target, Raid or Dungeons, it should be looked at and either improved or changed for something else.
- Thinking a bit more about Explosive Venom, maybe the best way to improve it is to make it be tied only to Explosive Shot, and a single Explosive Shot applies Serpent Sting to all targets hit with 100% chance. I’d suggest to skip the visual effect of firing the Serpent Shots, though. All the shots coming from the Hunter is just visual noise.
- Also thinking a bit more about Poisoned Barbs, it feels a bit redundant and repetitive when compared to Stomp. Both talents just add an AoE effect to Barbed Shot, with just center of AoE, amount and type of damage, and proc chance changing between them. Do we really need two AoE effects tied to the same skill? Maybe change the talent for something else. If I were to keep Poisoned Barbs, I’d apply it to Cobra Shot instead of Barbed Shot. Since you fire Cobra Shots more frequently, it could keep the current 30% proc chance. If that solution is adopted, then I also suggest swapping positions between Stomp and Poisoned Barbs in the tree, so that Stomp stays close to the Barbed Shot side of the tree, while Poisoned Barbs would remain near the Cobra Shot side of the tree.
- I wish there were more options that shift a bit of damage from the pet(s) to the Hunter. I know BM is all about the pet, but it wouldn’t hurt to allow some more agency to the Hunter, while keeping a good chunk of damage to the pet. I really feel BM is lacking in the department of visuals beyond calling beasts appearing.
I’ll post some more thoughts when they come to me.
1 Like
Yes but you skipped over the detail before that where it was stated that utilities would remain on the new eagle system .
Making the pets more powerful is more about making them better tanks for open world content.
The new non pet choice will always be optimal for higher end group content.
7 Likes
Said the Deathknight…
1 Like
You know that gif of the lady lighting a cigarette in a gas filled house? That is me when I go on the PTR and find out that trueshot (with 6 talent points spent on it) is not only worse in 11.1 than it is now in 11.0.7, but it is mathematically the worst DPS cooldown (1 minute or longer) in the game
4 Likes
The basic gameplay loop is similar, in effect, but only one tier (precise Shots buffed Arcane Shot can proc Spotter’s Mark, which buffs Aimed Shot), instead of 3 (Auto Shot can proc Marking Targets, which makes Arcane Shot apply Hunter’s Make, which lets you cast Marked Shot, which applies Vulnerable to buff Aimed Shot).
Further, the core gameplay loop doesn’t change. You were already applying Precise Shots with Aimed Shot. You were already consuming Precise Shots charges. What this does is created a feedback loop, Aimed Shot > Precise Shots > Arcane Shot > Spotter’s Mark > Aimed Shot > repeat. Swap Arcane for Multi in AoE, and now you have a bunch of independent chances to proc Spotter’s Mark.
It feels good to play. It feels reactive (i.e. a thing happened, I’m pushing a button in response to that) without actually altering priorities much.
3 Likes
@Kaivax Can’t seem to please everyone, it seems. But on a positive note, my Marksman thanks you!
5 Likes
MM has been a pet spec since the rework.
The choice is a more powerful eagle, or sacrificing damage to summon your own pets.
Petless MM is dead. Upside, the eagle currently might as well not exist as it’s a brown blob, and requires little direct management.
8 Likes
Bleak arrows and lnl need to be ppm now that auto is slow. Streamline needs to be consumed as aimed shot is done casting instead of when aimed lands. Deathblow needs to proc when aimed is done casting instead of when it lands.
These are mechanical things that need to happen for the spec to function properly.
IMO:
Withering fire should be replaced with readiness wailing arrow. Procs on trueshot and after x number of aimed shots. Procs every 3rd bw and gives bm kc or barbed charges. Yes, give something to bm that it has to cast.
Streamline at 2 charges in trueshot with imp sl makes more sense at PvP levels. PvP nerf doesn’t make sense with cast times outside of trueshot. 2 stack imp streamline doesn’t make sense inside or outside of trueshot in pve. It actually causes problems inside of trueshot because of how far below the global floor -90% takes your aimed shot. (Compounded by bugs above).
Remove PvP nerf and just readjust its scaling such that the first streamline charge is better than the second, but the second isn’t worthless. I.e. 40->60 out of trueshot and then 50->75 in trueshot (pick numbers that work). Maybe make this a basic function of trueshot and do something else with tensile bowstring or just remove it. This way at least the base mechanics don’t have to be different in PvP and pve, and you take some of the bloat out of the middle line of talents that you have to take.
Something else to think about, trueshot in the 45 second cooldown ballpark also kinda makes sense if its base effects are to be weak-ish. Reduce its base cooldown to a minute reduced by CTS to the 45 second range. It gives you the same cdr on aimed and rapid, and increases streamline to 50->75 but lasts 8 seconds base instead of 15 seconds base. More frequent use of the burst but make it not last as long to balance it out. This version of marks kinda has too many modifiers at its base level to balance properly around really long cooldown abilities. It’s dead time has to be too dead between trueshots.
5 Likes
As an enthusiast of petless MM, the eagle does not bother me at all. It still feels petless for all it’s worth. It’s an spell effect, not a beast you have to manage and command. One can integrate the eagle into their fantasy or just pretend it doesn’t exist. Hopefully it gets options to customize it into other birds/flying pets so it fits with different races/fantasies. I wouldn’t be opposed to a glyph that hides the eagle entirely either, thought personally I’d rather be able to change the eagle into other models rather than eliminate it.
3 Likes
Exactly the point I was trying to convey - it feels as such now. However, that may change if the outlined design continues in light of the walkback.
I disagree on this point. It is not a spell effect, it is an NPC that persists within the game world. And while you do not need to manage it, you do still command it. Its just that those commands are tacked onto other abilities.
If it continues as it is now, it isn’t worth the effort to customize. More accurately, they would need to make it more visually present (imagine it rode on your shoulder between combat, for example) thus undermining the ‘petless vibe’ its poor impact currently enables.
1 Like
I mean, you could give MM some cosmetic skills to call it or have it rest on your arm out of combat. As long as it’s something that you are not forced into, it’s totally fine. Heck, I love the petless feel but I don’t mind the bird companion at all.
Customization is always nice, however minor it may be. Since the Spotting Eagle uses the actual eagle model, I think it’s not hard to have its animations be imported into similar models (like albatrosses, ravens, parrots, falcons, non-Emerald Dream owls, and others) and possible models with different but similar skeletos like bats. I think it would make the Spotter Eagle feel more like a pet, and it’s fine so long the visuals aren’t ever-presented unless the player chooses them to be.
1 Like
From Improved Spotters Mark down to Double Tap choice node there is no ability to step into that chain from the side. Basically you are forced to spend 7 points on Trueshot and Pet Utility (that choice should be in the class tree).
If Trueshot is “mandatory” for spec, then you guys need to go back to the drawing board because you are requiring 7 talent points for it, which says Trueshot on its own is useless without huge support via talent investment.
You could consolidate Feathered/Calling/Tensile into one talent .
3 Likes
Here’s some ideas on how to customize and make the eagle feel more present in an optional way:
- Call Spotter Eagle: MM base skill (cosmetic). Togglable. Once this skill is activated, your Spotter Eagle will appear and fly above you while out of combat. If you stay still for a few seconds, the eagle will rest on your arm until you move or perform any action. The eagle ascends to the sky when you enter combat. You can deactivate this skill at any moment.
- Assign Spotter Duty: Talking to a stable Stable Master to assign any elligible pet in your stable (depends on model’s animations) as your Spotter Eagle. This works just like assigning a pet to be your Animal Companion as BM.
- Glyph of Lone Wolf: When applying this glyph, your Spotter Eagle no longer appears. You are truly a Lone Wolf.
8 Likes
To that end, I wish that they had made it appear more ghostly, so it’s more of a spirit or metaphorical eagle rather than a literal one. But still, easy enough to just imagine it is given how briefly it appears.
1 Like