Personally I was never a fan of mm hunters with pet’s and was excited about the change since I hate pets in pvp, I would have my pet afk and just use him for utilities. What I’m really afraid of when blizzard makes it a choose picking between the two is that one of the chooses will end up getting screwed over in the long run. We’ve seen it in the pass with what happened to lone wolf.
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Trueshot really needs another pass at design. For one, it just has too many talents tied to improving it. Two, it feels gutted from what we have on live. I would really like to see Aimed Shot casting faster with a reduced cooldown during the buff.
Moreover, I think it would be great if Trueshot granted Aspect of the Wild (so to speak) for its duration. Give us something like you did for PvP that allows us to cast on the move. I don’t really like it being tied to Aspect of the Cheetah, though. I think thematically it goes better with Trueshot, since I interpret Trueshot to be a “perfect aim, never miss situation.”
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Shouldn’t have to choose . From the Blue post utilities will be tied to the MM Hunter and the new Eagle thing and not the pet . The pet will mainly be for people that like to run open world content and do delves so to use as a pocket tank .
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Huh? 
brother i don’t want companions, i want to play lone wolf without having to worry about whether it’s meta to have a pet in a given situation or not. pretty sure we are on the same team here LMFAO
they only dont listen rogue and shadow priest feedbacks
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huh? the eagle is there regardless. the choice node is just an empowered pet or a stronger spotters mark
Here’s my feedback after 5 hours of raid and M+ testing last night
- I would be forum banned if i said how I truly feel about trueshot as a dps cooldown. That is the nicest way I can put it and I assume that gets the point across of how bad it is.
- The rotation feels extremely clunky, rigid, and RNG dependent especially with the new tier set.
- The damage feels extremely weak now because of the extra cast time on Aimed Shot + fishing for procs and ways to get streamline to stack up before pressing aimed shot and then when you do get the stacks you have to spam steady shot to get aimed shot back so you cap on focus
- The amount of haste this spec is going to need to feel even remotely enjoyable will not be possible to attain in the next patch.
- Aimed Shot having an even longer base cast time, with charges, with a cooldown, with no mobility, with dependency on RNG procs of lock and load (which are intentionally once every 1-2 minutes because of the tier set) feels terrible to play with.
These are just thoughts atm after testing and sleeping on it. To say I am considering rerolling is an understatement.
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Your description makes it sound like Legion MM, especially with fishing for procs. It’s making me think of Vulnerability and Marked Shot.
Am I wrong to make the comparison, or is it a decent one?
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The spec doesn’t really feel clunky at all, and Aimed Shot on average is way faster than it is currently, since you always have at least one Streamline stack from just doing your rotation.
For the most part, you follow a cycle of casting Aimed Shot → spending Precise Shots on Arcane Shot, Multi-Shot, or Kill Shot/Black Arrow (streamline x1) → casting Steady Shot to get Aimed Shot back if on cooldown → using Rapid Fire or Explosive Shot to gain streamline x2, if available → spending Streamline on Aimed Shot.
RNG isn’t really that big of an issue. Spotter’s Mark is completely passive, so the only things you have to react to are Deathblow procs for Precise Shots spending and the occasional Lock and Load proc. It’s pretty intuitive once you play it for a little while.
There are issues, though:
- Trueshot is a very strong cooldown, but mechanically feels terribly unimpactful despite having to spend six points on it.
- Spotter’s Mark also feels completely unimpactful to the rotation
- Dark Ranger is completely nonsensical.
Hopefully now that the pet fiasco is mostly over, these things can get some attention in future PTR builds.
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I don’t find the rotation bad. It’s clear Blizzard wants us to do more than just cast Aimed Shot by making other skills enhance AiS in power and speed.
Spotter’s Mark seems to be a buff intended to be an occasional boost and not something you wait to happen to spend an AiS. When it happens, your AiS easily gets 50% more damage (20% from spending Precision Shots, 30% from Spotter’s Mark). Since only AiS benefits from it, you don’t need to fear wasting it with another skill by accident.
Trueshot… well, it’s a downgrade, at least in terms of “feel”, but I think Blizzard is just shifting some power from burst to sustained. It’s not meant to change your rotation like in live, when pressing it makes casting AiS non-stop top priority. The new Trueshot just makes the standard rotation faster and deadlier. I like to press it immediately after casting Explosive Shot so I can trigger the explosion with a Streamlined AiS. It’s not bad, but it doesn’t feel awesome like the previous iteration.
Trueshot shouldn’t take 5 talents, though. That does feel like a lot of investment for little reward. However, I imagine it was done like that because Blizzard freed a lot of talents early in the tree by making them baseline skills (for instance, we no longer spend talents to learn Multishot or improve Steady Shot).
The chances of the Talent Tree changing before release are slim. Maybe some talents are replaced or swap places, but since this is the first iteration of the new MM, Blizzard will likely wait live data before trimming and expanding the tree.
3 Likes
well, going to have to say it. going to shelve the MM hunter and switch to another talent. This is shades of what you folks did to frost mages in SL. good luck to everyone keeping MM
Some quick notes regarding the MM rotation/talents:
- Lock and Load and Bleak Arrows need to have their proc rates adjusted to reflect the new auto shot speed change from Precise Shots, this is especially true if you’re running Headshot. The wait time between procs was very noticable, and I’m currently sitting at 22% haste on the PTR.
- I am not liking this new version of Trueshot at all, it costs a whopping 5 talent points to make it even remotely usable, and even then it still pales in comparison to the live version of the cooldown.
- As another poster has already pointed out, Ammo Conservation and Penetrating Shots should swap places, mainly because In the Rhythm is on the opposite side of the tree of Ammo Conservation.
- Volley and Trick Shots need to have both of their durations increased to compensate for the new pace of the rotation. Also, can we please have Trick Shot’s target requirement reduced to two, down from three? It’s incredibly frustrating trying to get my AoE damage up and running on trash packs that die way too fast on live already, even more so now that Aimed Shot’s cast time is being increased yet again.
- Improved Spotter’s Mark/Unbreakable Bond should swap places with Trick Shots/Aspect of the Hydra, that way those who wish to retain their pets can get them back earlier while leveling as MM.
- Wailing Arrow is not just extremely thematic to the Dark Ranger fantasy but it was also a powerful ability in our ST rotation due to it’s ability to keep our Aimed Shot/Rapid Fire economy going. I strongly believe that Wailing Arrow should be preserved in the Dark Ranger hero talent tree especially given this rework’s newfound focus on streamline procs.
Edit: Wording and grammar
10 Likes
Number/Damage tuning aside i am commenting strictly on the abilities and the rotation.
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Trueshot feels like utter __________ and that is quite bad considering its our major DPS cooldown. If feels more like a random button you press now whenever it is off CD just because with nothing impactful being noticed. At least speed cast aimedshots should be brought back during TS.
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Spotter’s mark’s “buff” isn’t impactful enough to even bother “Gaming it” you just simply shoot off whenever.
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The gameplay of fire of an explosive shot and then follow it with an aimedshot for more damage is a unique enough idea but i feel like either explosive shot should give a charge of aimedshot when that talent is chosen often times with good DPS rotation play you never have a aimdshot banked so make use of half of them.
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The talent tree layout doesn’t feel interesting with talents feeling either 100% mandatory or simply absolutely worthless. Seems there is very little inbetween. You guys took some things that made MM great talent wise and broke it into 4-5 mini talents all doing the same thing and consider it a “rework” (See trueshot’s obscene amount of talents.)
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MARKSMAN has everything to do with range weapons it has nothing to do with PETS, you have access to 2 tress with pets if you desire. Please stop trying to make pets a thing for MM if the pet utility is missed then perhaps you should look at incorporating that utility in a way the MM hunter has access to it WITHOUT a pet.
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The rotation is so clunky it makes me wonder if people TRIED to play this within the dev team.
Would love actual dev footage of what they expect the fluidity of the rotation to be.
I was hopeful for this rework but honestly given how quickly you guys are just making radical changes per PTR build i am terrified.
I look forward to the next build.
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The bad thing about lock and load is that some genius decided to do gambling and lottery tier sets this time around and Marksman’s is built around Lock and Load. So the proc rate HAS to be terrible because of that.
They did this while completely ignoring the fact that doing it results in the spec and rotation feeling terrible.
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That’s literally what they’ve done. All the utility is with the hunter/spotter eagle.
Either this or have it trigger lock and load. I’d prefer the latter.
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There is an updated bluepost bringing pets back to marksman as a choice node with more damage / etc… to “compensate” except as we all know in wow things either “work” or they don’t so don’t be surprised if you see MM as a pet class now with that change.
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Yeah, with the idea being that improved spotter’s mark will be the higher dps option. The pet option is so people can still have their personal tank.
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The primary issue with Lone Wolf is that MMs expected utility required a pet, while MMs expected damage disallowed a pet.
This change separates the utility out into baseline abilities, allowing you the best of both worlds. Unless Blizzard tunes Unbreakable Bond to be better DPS than Improved Spotters Mark, everybody gets exactly what they want, with no downsides. Even if the tuning is off, due to the nature of MMs damage profile and stats, the pet will never scale with mastery nor multiple targets.
At most, you might see the pet marginally stronger on a high movement single target raid encounter involving phases that prevent you from DPSing effectively but allowing your pet to stay on target 100%, in the first tier of content in a given expansion, prior to set bonuses or high levels of mastery on gear. On such an encounter, BM is unquestionably a vastly superior spec anyway, so it’s largely a moot point (the ones who care about being optimal would be swapping to BM for that encounter anyway).
10 Likes
Some feedback on Beast Mastery for a change, though keep in mind that I’m not usually a BM player. It’s just that I found myself testing it for the first time in a long while, and there’s some weirdness in the talent tree that caught my eye.
- Barbed Shot needs a new visual ASAP. It’s like shooting a needle! It’s very underwhelming for such an important button! If there’s no time to bake a new visual for it, here’s my suggestion: use Rapid Fire’s red arrow, except of course it fires only one projectile.
- Hunter’s Prey is automatically gimped if the player chose Solitary Companion over Animal Companion, since it becomes more powerful the more pets you have out. I think it should be reworked to give a baseline 20% damage increase to Kill Shot and make it target 3 targets, plus 10% damage/extra target for each non-pet beast you have summoned (Dire Beast, Call of the Wild, and so on). That way, the base benefit of the talent is the same for both Solitary Companion and Animal Companion.
- Poisoned Barbs’ visual effect should be more noticeable when it happens. Or, alternatively, make it always happen (up from 30% chance) on Barbed Shots but reduce damage to compensate.
- Serpentine Rhythm: When the Cobra Shot buff reaches max stacks (next shot will reset it), the Cobra Shot button should flare up and the visual of the projective should be more impressive. But here’s an additional idea: with the removal of Venom’s Bite, what about Serpentine Rhythm applying Serpent Sting when it’s cast at full power? The added visual and effect of Serpent Sting would make that final shot even more satisfying.
- Explosive Venom is such a weird talent. Cast Serpent Sting every 3 Multishots/Explosive Shots? I feel even adding a Serpent Sting talent with built-in Hydra’s Bite (hitting 3 targets) would be more interesting (though it would add an extra button). Well, I don’t know exactly what do with this node, but the way it is feels really clunky.
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As a MM hunters since Burning Crusade, thank you. I was seriously considering shelving my main for the first time ever because of this.
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