Correct, you cannot summon a pet as MM on live but…
Has been done. There are specific replacements already coded for MM hunter on the PTR. Harrier’s Cry + Tenacious/Cunning. So no additional work is needed.
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No, I’m talking about things like your pet still giving you its family passive and applying mortal wounds. That’s more core of a change ti the actual pet code.
It doesn’t make sense to change all of that stuff when you could instead leave it all on the pet and do nothing except remove lw. It’s obviously a staunch enough design goal to retain pseudo lw play style that they haven’t done this any of the other times it’s been brought up. Hence the need to find something in the middle.
So, while pet active, aimed shot does not MS.
While pet is not active, aimed shot does MS, you have the command ability, and the pet family passive - exactly as that talent point node grants you already on the PTR. So there is not all that much more to code as it is.
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Mortal Wounds is only against other players anyway, no effect at all for PvE.
Yes, but double MS in PvP from a single player would be pretty broken, so I see the point in not letting that be an option.
But why would you do that in the first place if the pet already does all of these things? It’s completely unnecessary from the get go. If at that point using the pet is any damage loss we are right back where we started. Also at that point, there is no option but to play with pet, which is verifiably against design goals.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall the only pet being able to apply the mortal wounds (or similar) debuff being an exotic pet, the devilsaur, anyway, MM would never have that pet anyway.
It’s more than just Devilsaur:
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You’re both wrong. They wouldn’t stack but you could keep ms up on two things. There are specific pet skins that give ms but it’s not exotic.
Because not having a pet does more damage and lets you avoid the hassles of dealing with a pet if you don’t want to. Why do you wear a blue shirt today, when your grey shirt works? player choice is a wonderful thing.
No, design goal is to play with a single pet type with no player input and invalidate the thing experience in an unintuitive way. Not to be petless entirely.
I have a dreamtalon that I’ve used when I suffered through to get a title from rated BGs - it’s more than exotics.
When I said stack, I meant you could guarantee 100% uptime via pet and hunter, or split on two targets. So that’s more or less in agreement even though I worded it poorly.
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Lone Wolf is no longer a talent in 11.1, but call pet doesn’t need to be deleted nor require a talent point to exist, like Muti-shot became baseline. From my own limited testing MM looks far weeker in damage on the PTR compared to live, more than the 3% damage the pet has is missing on the PTR. I also feel the micromanaging the pet required to use it is like its own unintended but present damage reduction. Cant use most abilities while spending cognitive load and time, summoning, dismissing, healing, or directing the traditional pet. I say keep it there as an option and use it or not, but keep the utility buttons as 11.1 intends to.
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Motte and Bailey; ignoring nuance. You both kinda have a pet and you kinda don’t. Design goal is for your pet experience to be its own different thing as marks, because the one we’ve been working with for the last x number of years has clear problems.
Not a logical fallacy, that is a structure of an argument. What you want cite is appeal to emotion, which I admit it is. However, you are engaging in the fallacy fallacy which is despite my point being an appeal to emotion, it is not necessarily wrong.
Kinda lke I can be a married bachelor? You either have a pet, or you don’t, there is no “half-pet” that isn’t also a pet.
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“Some way” being to just do that. Just make Primal Rage a baseline hunter ability. Problem solved. The reintroduction of having a choice in pet spec is awesome, but it’s rendered moot since players will still have to choose ferocity 99% of the time for primal rage.
The rework is such a convoluted overkill. The current version of MM is utterly better than what’s on the ptr. Taking away cool stuff like wailing arrow and barrage makes it so bland.
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To be fair, most Paladin defensives applying Forbearance, and being dispelled somewhere between 0 and 2 seconds after casting a 5 min cooldown, and having most defensives fail to function if carrying and orb or flag are obvious negatives to Paladin gameplay, but they have existed for many years.
Sometimes things can be improved on. Pet utility being moved to the Hunter, and to no longer fail to function if the pet is CCed or died is a plus, just like optionally reducing Forbearance to 20 seconds and having Divine Shield ignore Forbearance were nice improvements.
Things are getting better for MM in usability and rotational complexity(hope it adds fun and isnt just a large roakblock to the specs success), but giving the traditional pet the axe has provided a bit of a shock and does cause a decrease in situational survivability and utility (Eagle cannot attack/taunt/keep enemies in combat).
So while the Eagle is better in many ways and in some content, it is not better in all ways for all content. Thats probably ok, but some players are rightly concerned that what MM is losing isnt being compensated elsewhere in the kit.
Harrier’s Cry(11.1s version of Primal Rage) is not something you can talent out of, every MM ALWAYS has lust in their toolkit. There is no talent choice to add or remove what is baseline.(that part is for the person that said they needed a talent for Primal Rage in 11.1)
I sincerely hope that the feedback about the spec doesn’t get buried or ignored. There are dozens of glaring issues and problems with the talent tree and the ability to make this new design idea feel “good”.
Blizzard calls the Eagle a pet, I guess they can call anything in their IP whatever they want. The Eagle…is an animation that you cant tell to hover or stand any particular place, it cant attack, it cant be harmed, in Blizzards words, it exists outside the gamespace. It is no more inside the game space than using Trueshot changing the color of the hunter that used it.
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Correct. And because Blizzard calls it a pet, that is one reason why I consider it a pet.
It applies Spotting Mark and reacts to our commands, albeit passively. It appears that it also exists as a persistent NPC within the game files. It certainly is a different approach to a pet than we have seen before. But being different doesn’t mean “not a pet”, it’s just a different approach.
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If you were to read the code that causes 11.1 Intimidation or Harrier’s Cry to exist, would you expect the code to require the Eagle animation to trigger the application of the utility, or would you expect the code to allow you, the player, to cast the utility, which is coded to trigger the Eagle animation?
I’d expect the latter. Kind of an inconsequential thought, but just food for thought.
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The Eagle or Falconer part of the spec that is inc is what will tie them together since is a utility “pet”. Id say they better put some sort of spell ties that use the eagle in Survival as well.
Eagle Eye is a good start, tie it directly to the Eagle utility, giving it more flavor. (Tangent as well, dont remove Eagle eye as util for all but MM. Its just a bad idea.) Not just for MM and SV but BM too, have the Eagle play a bigger part for MM but very small/minor inclusion for the other specs if at all. Mainly MM and SV to tie the hero talents together better. Sentinel is just too specific to be appealing so I agree, its based on Tyrande who isnt even a hunter. Blizz can make the hero talent thematically work if they flush some flavor into the spells to reflect it better. “Falconer” or “Harrier” would be so much better of an idea than what we currently have. A new coat of paint would do wonders.
ALSO one more thing…dont remove the pets entirely from MM. Having a pet to tank is a nice bonus, just make it bare bones if you are wanting players to lean into the “Lone Wolf” playstyle. Just dont remove it outright.
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