What draws me to Herald’s design is the application of Sunspots and then using the Avenging Wrath effect that applies 4 more sunspots to nearby enemies/allies and then tethers you to them to do more damage to enemies that pass through the beam.
If 6 sunspots are the max you can get out at the same time from Wake > Spender > Spender > Wings, thats 6% haste from each target and a beam to each. That sounds incredibly fun to try and min max.
As i pointed out, that’s literally the only saving grace, along with aurora, but that just puts it at about average.
if those 2 talents did not exist, it might as well be like wildstalker, that’s a pretty low bar in my opinion for saying that something is “great”.
Like some people said here, which i do not understand.
Well we aren’t saying that those two talents don’t exist, we have to look at the entire tree as a complete package. Its adding new effects to the class that we did not have before (Sunspot, Sunspot tethers, Eternal Flame’s return) and some passive bonuses to bump up our baseline power.
Now if we compare Herald to something you call near god tier, Frostfire is mostly passive procs and when you cast X you now also cast Y effects. Herald changes our gameplay loop in a way that something like Frostfire does not, and I think that is a fun thing that these hero talents can add to a class that lacks gameplay depth like Retribution Paladin.
Now, mages already have a pretty high skill ceiling compared to Retribution in a way that Feral druid also has a higher skill ceiling compared to Ret. If I had to guess, that is why Wildstalker and Frostfire do not substantially impact the gameplay loop of their host specs.
Ok, another one who doesn’t know what they are talking about.
Don’t try compare herald or templar to frostfire because it will just highlight your lack of knowledge.
Forget frostfire, just talk about herald/templar, as i said, the only reason why they are average is due to those 2 things i pointed out.
Also, as i said, the point is not to drastically change the gameplay, the point was about supplementing what’s already there.
Frostfire does a way better job at this, than herald or templar.
Don’t get offended because i compared your favorite class hero spec to what’s an actually well designed hero spec.
i believed we talked just now in the how discord. so its a moot point continuing, especially when looking up “frostfire” shows alot of people in mage cord going “its boring” especially after talking to tcers about how it is.
You’re living in your own world.
The reception of frostfire is overwhelmingly positive, whether on youtube or other media, just because a few people are not as impressed, that doesn’t actually prove your point.
And it doesn’t take a genius to understand why frostfire is well received, if you actually understand how frost and fire currently work.
hey i did what you said, went to the mage cord, and saw the inital reaction and tcer reaction to frostfire. its okay if you like it tho, it legit doesnt matter to me.
again your acting like you know more tha the tcer’s of your spec. ill take their opinion in at higher value than random streamer take or a lfr andy’s take.
stop derailing this thread
TLDR: Aesthetically cool but mechanically flawed with how the procs work.
But I’m sure a world first raider and Altered Time theorycrafter is just confused and you know better.
i mentioned this as well and they kinda doubled down on it
I don’t think you actually read the thing, you just looked at the title, and thought to yourself, damn this should be a good enough article to disprove what he said based purely on conjecture.
Read the article.
There are no major pitfalls pointed out, just minor problems and some improvements to make.
again no one is saying tis bad, im saying its boring according to my subjective opinion and based on the opinion of mage tcer’s this article also highlights other small issues and complaints that further continues mages issues. no hero tree is perfect and that should be expected.
There’s a big difference between “a few issues” and saying it’s boring. You even went as far as to say that it’s the most boring, which when compared to trees like wildstalker makes me question whether you have eyes or not.
YOU think it’s boring, not others, at least not the majority of people i saw on medias like youtube, or i talked to. Enhance has minor issues, doesn’t mean it’s boring, it’s one of the most fun specs infact.
You can double down on your cooked take, but that doesn’t change the fact that frostfire is far better than whatever ret has, and that it’s better than pretty much all other hero specs.
And should probably be the standard of quality for hero talents, rather than whatever templar or herald is.
okay
/10chars
We done here? Good, finally.
yes, now kindly leave this thread
Well, iv’e already said what i wanted about this tree.
It’s average, just like current ret gameplay.
That’s because you’re not real paladins; just a pale imitation. 
What about Kul Tiran druids which have more of a Harvest Witch sort of vibe to them, and have been practicing Druidism before they made contact with the Night Elves?
Same with the Worgen. Yes the Worgen curse is part of Kaldorei Druidism, but Gilneans practiced a form of Druidism in The Old Ways similar to Kul Tiran Druids far before they knew about Night Elves.
What about Troll druids? Their belief and powers stem from their worship of the Loa and has nothing to do with Elune. You mention the Lun’alai but the Zandalari specifically view them as heretics because their views are in contrast with their Loa worship.
Druidism is definitely not inherently tied to Elune. So
What’s the strongest source of light in the world?
The SUN right?
Seems to be tauren are the true paladins if you ask me.
Yeah, fishing for a proc might not have been the best way to phrase it, but more so just spamming Holy Power Spenders in addition to Second Sunrise, so that you can make the most of Awakening.
Holy Prism → Divine Purpose → hitting a HP spender in hopes of “procing” another DP/Second Sunrise
Like I mentioned, this was an issue in SL with Necrolord spamming LoD for Wings uptime via Awakening, which resulted in a lot of over healing and was just pretty degenerate gameplay.
I do not think this is nearly as bad as Necrolord was in SL, but I think its worth making note of it as early as possible just in case.