Neither An’she nor Elune should be named (I know Elune is druids, but the point is the same)
My blood elf paladin wouldn’t relate to An’she even if she picked up Herald of the Sun and my troll druid wouldn’t relate to Elune.
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I definitely agree with you. I think it’s a pretty easy fix, just change the name “Sunspots” to something about/with An’she and it becomes an An’she tree. I don’t personally care one way or another, but it does make sense for it to be about the sun deity Taurens worship.
If that isn’t going to happen though, the name Sunspots still should change, it’s just not good. “Echo of the Sun”, “Sun’s Radiance”, would be totally fine, sunspots just do not sound appealing namewise.
Holy pally is the one healer I truly enjoy. I loved the 10.1.5 rework. Then they ruined it. I recently started healing again because I hopped on the WoWhead guide and it said, like right at the top, “you don’t need to avoid using WoG anymore.” So I came back. Still feels like trash to use, sadly. Pretty much hard agree with you though.
While I agree that you will never reach “max” stacks if you’re casting Wake or Prism on cooldown, consider this: Maybe you’re meant to cast it on CD and it’s meant to only be 20%/30% stronger, but because it can stack higher, you’re not punished if you have to delay it for any amount of time.
You right.
Bruh, let me help you out here: Sunspot is triggered of of HP spenders and Eternal Flame spends HP. They literally are merged. Now go re-read the tree.
You had so many options and you literally picked the two most boring ones.
Ok, time for my actual thoughts. Looks like a lot of fun. My only concern is Eternal Flame. Now, I can admit when I’m wrong. And I must say, I am disappointed. I really thought more hpals would revolt at the idea of being saddled with a HoT. No HoTs for hpal, full direct heals, that’s our shtick.
Having said that, I’m not fully against EF. Allow me to make a proposal: Make EF a choice node with “WoG but better”. Literally just a 10% buff to WoG for aesthetic purposes. The point is to choose between your single target spender being a pure HoT or a direct heal. They both deal ‘X’ amount of healing, just the method of delivery is different. I promise you this is an interesting choice that you will be swapping between. 90% of the time you’ll want to blanket the raid in HoTs, and 95% of the time you’ll want the emergency spot healing of a direct heal in dungeons. But there will be that other 5% of the time when rot damage is high on certain dungeon bosses and you’ll want a HoT on everyone (think Everbloom) and there will be that 10% of the time when the rot damage is almost non-existent on a raid boss and you’ll want direct heals for quick spot healing. It is a viable, interesting choice.
Having said that, wth is Ret doing with Eternal Flame? Feels like a wasted node for them. In fact, in all PvP cases and most PvE cases, I assume they’d want the large emergency direct heal that is WoG. Tuning of the “upfront” healing to be determined.
Addendum: Oh right. Y’all have a deeply weird obsession with the naming of things. I read all 8 hero talent trees without reading a single name. I thought this thread was twice as long as the other feedback threads. Turns out, it’s 2/3 whining about ‘Sunspots’ or An’she not being mentioned. Still, if that’s your thing, more power to ya. It’s not like it affects me at all.
2 Likes
I think Hero Talents are trying too hard. If this were just the return of Inscription Glyphs, I’d be totally into that.
Loving everything about the tree. I was (and still am) highly critical of Lightsmith, but the Herald tree looks to bring both exciting gameplay as well as effects that evoke a holy knight summoning righteous fire.
I just have one nagging question, and it’s about sunspot targeting. The starting talent indicates that, after the triggering ability — whether that’s Wake or Prism — the next two holy power spenders apply a sunspot to your target. Light of Dawn, Divine Storm, and Shield of the Righteous hit up to 5 or more targets and don’t even require you to have a primary target selected. Will one target out of the many be randomly selected or will all targets hit get a sunspot? If the former, I can see some awkward gameplay in AoE situations where the player has little or no agency other than to avoid using AoE spenders altogether, which would be really unfortunate considering the tree includes passive buffs for two out of the three of them.
Maybe sunspots can scale with the magnitude of the spender that triggered them, almost like a radiant Master Marksman proc? That way, Divine Storm, for example, could trigger a handful of weaker sunspots on multiple targets, and “worst case” situations like a single sunspot randomly landing on the lowest-health enemy or full-health ally could be avoided.
How exactly is this “good” as some people are saying?
Literally the only interesting talents seem to be aurora and maybe solar grace, at least haste does something… And sun’s avatar seems like it will be more of a bother than anything else. Not a big bother, but still a bother.
How is this even comparable to things like scalecommander, elune’s chosen, or the best one, frostfire.
The 2 ret pally talent tree, are almost as boring as wildstalker.
D tier, C tier, maybe for herald and templar, depending on how good it feels to press hammer of light, and how sunspot, wake of ashes and solar grace interact, especially in aoe. The only reason they don’t get F tier is because wildstalker exists.
How is this good guys? Did you take a look at other talent trees like frostfire? I don’t think you did.
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I’d prefer if nothing in the hero talent trees depended on a potential talent choice. The mechanics should revolve around baseline class/spec abilities or the talents you automatically get for choosing a spec (like blade of justice for ret pallys or holy shock for holy pallys). I feel that linking these hero talents to specific talent choices (like holy prism or wake of ashes). I’d also like it if the Herald of the Sun had An’she themes. If a druid hero spec can literally name drop the Nelf goddess Elune, I’d like some parity for the Horde folks (and my favorite moocows).
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Holy Prism and Wake are so easy to get that you really have to go out of your way to not take them. Not understanding this complaint as I’ve seen it a few times now.
Sunspots on Holy Shock would basically be Glimmer 2.0 anyway.
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I think you mean Chosen of Mu’Sha. Still weird that people are this obsessed with names.
The gist of the complaint is that talents are supposed to let you customize your character to an extent (theorycrafting and parsing aside). If the hero talents require specific base talents to function, then those base talents aren’t choices. If it’s possible to make a paladin that uses different talent choices, like a holy pally that takes Light’s Hammer instead of Holy Prism or a ret pally that prefers the other capstone talents over Wake of Ashes, then they shouldn’t be required for the Hero talents to function.
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Literal “WHO?”, I had to look up who it was on wowpedia, and is Elune for cows.
I’m against homogenization, if the rp guys want the name that’s ok, but you have to do it for everyone: Naaru, Loa and others. (Spoiler alert: Not gonna happen)
Tbh this is not important for the average player, is the class fun? does the class works? that’s the real thing.
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Oh yea, the most “boring ones” Are the only ones that actually do something for you, even though pretty small.
But yea, 10 % more crit on divine storm/hammer of wrath with a passive dot on crit, wowee. So interesting! Or some random dot called sunspot, that would be literally irrelevant for gameplay if it wasn’t for the haste buff. You literally wouldn’t even feel it. Or more holy power spender damage while sunspot is active, wowwee! Definitely something to write home about.
Do you even listen to yourself?
im not gonna sugar coat it. if you dont take wake of ashes as ret then you should just play another spec completely. every spec has a mandatory capstone in the talent tree they need to grab for the spec to work properly. cause again talent trees replaced level up bonuses. this sort of “opinion” shouldnt be legitimized at all
as for holy paladin yes, lightsprism will be the to go option if herald goes out like this. effectively killing lights hammer. hOWEVER we have very good reason to assume that their will be a talent tree shake up for paladin in general. considering they confirmed it for warrior and shockwave. plus the fact that multiple talents in both hero trees dont make sense due to current talent structure UNLESS they are moved or changed ore removed.
hence why alot of good players here are holding off acutal judgement of hero talent trees besides the obvious. without learning the full picture. i hope this clears up your concerns
it honestly feels like you had your expectations to high and thus disappointed. when blizzard themselves the goal of hero talents would be passive bonuses. these bonuses might seem small but these “small” extras will make the overal engine for ret and holy run alot more smoother to a noticable degree
3 Likes
My expectations are about in line with other talent trees.
Frostfire is so far the best looking one, then you have scalecommander, elune’s chosen and a few others that actually do something cool. But the best one is still frostfire by quite a long shot.
Most specs are passives, but look at something like frostfire, it’s clearly not the same quality of passives.
ngl its unironically one of the most boring trees we saw so far. it does nothing to shake up the rotation of fire or frost the only thing interesting about it is the free meteor or comets proc (which might not be that great considering current tuning)
its all a matter of subjective opinion.
Nah, it’s not a subjective opinion here, you are pretty much objectively wrong.
Go to the mage discord and ask around or watch a video etc, there is nothing to my knowledge that straight up said: Frostfire is bad or boring.
Frostfire as it’s looking will pretty much make frost/fire, similar, but better.
The point is not to radically change the gameplay, the point is to supplement it.
Templar and herald fail at this for the most part. It’s just boring passives that do pretty much nothing, aside literally 2 of them. Aurora and solar grace. At least it’s not wildstalker, the most boring out of them all, that tree is just a failure. Even oracle was more interesting, although for the wrong reasons.
Also, stop being a contrarian just for the sake of it. There is no way you looked at frostfire and thought to yourself, “this is boring” if you actually understand how frost and fire mage plays. No shot, no way, you are trolling or you’re being a contrarian for the sake of it or you do not understand how fire/frost works.
Literally change the cdr from phoenix flames to fire blast, and frostfire is god tier design compared to all the other hero trees shown.
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I truly do not understand your logic for aurora. How does one free spender after using prism lead to LoD spam or fishing for procs?
There is no logic.
It’s 1 guaranteed spender. You could get lucky and get another reset with 10%, but that’s hardly “fishing for a proc”. And it’s likely that this will work even if you don’t have the divine purpose talented, so if you don’t want it, it’s gonna be 1 proc and that’s it.
You’re not fishing for anything, you either get 1 guaranteed proc and then nothing, or 1 guaranteed proc and then some more if you’re lucky.
After careful consideration ill give templar a C rating, and herald a C-, overall, about average, maybe slightly below, nothing particularly interesting, which is very ret like.
So are we just making up things to get mad over? No one knows what any of their hero talent Damage/Healing values are, and if they’re underwhelming then blizzard needs to address that.
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So is your standard for saying whether something is good or not purely down to it’s tuning and not it’s design?
What exactly does sunspot do on it’s own? It’s just a passive dot, that’s the answer, the only thing that makes it slightly cool are things like solar grace.