Human paladins. We Light up the world.
(see what I did there…“Light” up. Heh-heh)
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Yeah well we cows light up the solar system.
Boom
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God of Sun only to the cow peeps but not the rest, iirc none of the other paladin organizations even come close to that. And Paladins dun exactly worship Elune directly either based on in lore understanding, we worship the Light as we know it ( as for if the Light and Elune are one and the same is not clear right now ) so until it’s proven in lore that they ARE one and the same and hence the God or rather Goddess of the Sun, Paladins are gonna claim heresy to that.
It’s like Elves descending from Trolls but no self respecting Elf will associate themselves on that lineage.
i mean bloodelves use the sunwell for their light magic, and rezan model is full of sun references not to mention rezen himself is based on south american sun gods (or god of kings like inti/vericocha from peru)
so its not just taurens that actively uses the sun in their lore, its every horde race that can be paladin. arguably dwarves as well. so again its kinda silly to not put all these sun based fantasy in a hero tree named “herald of the sun” like its easy to change the name of few t hings to fit lore
change solar grace to sunwells grace
sun sear to kings sear or rezen sear
avatar of the sun to avatar of anshe
i think its rather reasonable to give rp’ers and casuals atleast one node to represent paladin fantasy beyond “human” or “undescribed light” heck naruu stuff has more of a representation in priests than “random light”
This is an excellent point and one I hadn’t considered until now because I 100% overlooked that the Arathi consider the crystal in Hallowfall to be a ‘Crystal Sun’. Given that they appear to be a very zealous culture, the ‘Herald of the Sun’ could be referring to the Arathi rather than any other race.
As for my take on the whole ‘An’she’ thing? I don’t really care one way or the other. If Blizzard goes down that path and mentions An’she, they’re free to do that. If they don’t want to do that? That’s fine too. You’re able to use your own imaginations to cover gaps that Blizzard doesn’t fill for you. So if you want to think of your character as a ‘Herald of An’she’ rather than a Herald of the Sun, that’s your right and no one can stop you.
Thats right, any player can RP whatever they would like for themselves. Names of Hero trees, talents, other talents and abilities, take a backseat priority for me personally because implimentation affecting gameplay and performance concerns me more. Players may and should voice their opinons on names/themes ect, Blizzard asked them to do so and thats cool with me. I’m happy with whatever we get for names if the experience playing the spec entertains me.
I have 2 questions about this tree:
- Can we please rename Sunspot? While sunspots are dark areas that appear on the Sun, Sunspot also has another meaning and it’s usually associated with skin sun damage. As someone who lives in Australia my first read on Sunspot was skin cancer, not the dark dots on the sun.
- I didn’t play very much when Eternal Flame was a thing in the past but isn’t a 20 second hot a bit too long? In an m+ environment if you need to spam heals into 1 player, surely this would feel awful overriding the hot part constantly - massively reducing its potential. Given you have to take all points in this tree and the fact that Lightsmith is only other alternative, and it currently looks terrible, this seems kinda bad. I guess it depends on the tuning and how much power they put in the hot vs the upfront bit.
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It’s likely to be something similar to Prot’s healing back in Legion, you have a big heal dropping on the target then a extremely miniscule amount of hot that’s around like 3% over 10 secs or sth, barely noticable. Number here are imagined so dun count on pure facts.
Correct. Sacred Light is sacred light. and now the sacred flame.
For the alliance.
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It’s funny because some people are disappointed because they feel they’re not doing enough.
I’m on your boat though, I would have been fine with mostly cosmetic and utility/QoL changes in there.
Things like the movement speed talents, the DR on Sacrifice, eternal flame (since its just plain replace WoG), even Sun’ Avatar fits this kinda.
In the end I think the balance they struck for Herald and Templar is fine.
Lightsmith… not so much…
I just dont wanna be stuck using a specific line if I do end up rolling a ret/holy paladin
“You need x spells from the hero tree if you want to raid”
No thanks ill use what sounds cool
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From a Retribution PoV.
I’ll split by node and general feedback. I’m excited to test these further when we get BETA.
General Feedback:
- Sunspot could use a different name, this one is just okay.
- I like the incorporation of an impactful DoT/HoT for Ret.
- The damage and gameplay for this hero talent tree is ENTIRELY passive. There is no actual gameplay element except the ‘Sun’s Avatar’ capstone, which is only movement based.
Sunspot (Row 1)
- Passive Damage and Passive Cleave, functional, but not exactly exciting.
- It has interaction with your rotation or decision making. It just happens.
- That is fine as long as gameplay interactions are added later in the tree.
Morning Star/Gleaming Rays (Row 2A)
- This isn’t a choice, it is a math problem.
- You will either
A. Get more damage out of the Sunspot damage amp from Morning Star
or
B. The % increase on Holy Power Spenders will be more beneficial.
Eternal Flame (Row 2B)
- Great Node!
- The HoT will be the major determining factor on the usefulness of this node.
Luminosity (Row 2C)
- Not all nodes have to be majorly impactful, but this only really gives one benefit because of our current talent in the class tree, ‘Vengeful Wrath’, has Hammer of Wrath always be a critical strike.
Illumine (Row 3A)
- Provides limited utility for Ret because it is linked to Sunspot application (tied to Wake). It will only apply to enemies unless you are casting WoG.
- You may not always want the slow applied at the time you want to cast Wake.
- If we need a slow (PvP mostly), we can just take the Judgment of Justice/Highlord’s Judgment talent combo in the Spec Tree.
- Consider having a self movespeed increase when a Sunspot is applied to an enemy OR ally.
Will of the Dawn (Row 3A)
- Mostly fine, but the baseline of 5% should likely be adjusted up to a minimum of 10%.
Eternal Sun/Lingering Radiance(Row 3B)
- This isn’t a choice, it is a math problem.
- You will either
A. Get more damage out of the Sunspot duration (and Sunspot related talents)
or
B. Get more damage out of the Greater Judgment bonuses
Sun Sear (Row 3C)
- Passive Damage is fine since it is tied to this Hero Tree valuing critical strike more. Not overly exciting, but it is functional.
Aurora (Row 4A)
- Solid Node!
Solar Grace (Row 4B)
- Solid Node!
Second Sunrise (Row 4C)
- This a a glorified % damage increase on Divine Storm and Hammer of Wrath.
- I think it equals ~4.5% increased damage to those specific abilities on average.
- The echo feels too similar to Empyrean Legacy
- If Holy power is generated by the secondary echo of Hammer of Wrath, than it might be more interesting, but with our current HP gen rate, it might end up being wasted.
Sun’s Avatar (Capstone)
- This needs a bit more clarification for Ret. What happens when there is only one enemy present? Are the Sunspots all applied to the singular enemy or are they spread to your allies?
- This may look cool visually, but has a chance to be clunky. Raiding and Mythic Plus often require precise positioning and having to run through a beam to get a healing benefit or running around enemies to get them to take damage can just feel.
- It might feel better to have both yourself and any target with a Sunspot applied radiate damage (or healing for allies) to nearby enemies
Summary
- I think this tree is a decent start
- It needs more gameplay interaction
- I think the Solar Grace interaction can be very rewarding and feel good.
- The choice nodes should matter and provide distinct gameplay differences.
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WDYM?
You get all the talents in the talent tree, you don’t “pick” a line.
The only things you “pick” are the choice ones…
Which means they delivered exactly what they said they would do.
When they announced them, they said the goal was to enhanced what we were already doing.
Gameplay changes was never something they emphasized on, they wanted to add flavor.
Not that it precludes them from doing so but we were specifically told not to expect this.
I think you’re nailing the feedback on everything else.
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First, people can give feedback on whatever portion of hero talents they want to. Actually ridiculous you are in here with the attitude of thinking your feedback is more important because some people are complaining about names (because there isn’t that much to say about the tree yet it looks good and we have to try it). Congratulations you don’t read names lmao, nobody cares. Completely pointless to go after people for that, especially when the tree looks quite good just needs to be tested.
Second, Eternal flame would actually be a semi interesting choice for ret in pvp. Not that it actually matters because our healing in pvp is not good anyway from wog/fol, but a HoT can help more vs specific rot comps. I don’t think it’ll be enough to move ret from templar to Herald (assuming ret goes templar) but you could definitely use it in some cases.
man what is with all the bad rp takes
I am kidding being an alliance, in the end, all those “Deities” are just channels of the light. I am not a full RP player but I know my lore cause I love Warcraft lore. I don’t have specifics on the talent three of the HoS but I can’t wait to play it.
I think that is fair.
Using their original statement:
“You should feel like you’re playing your spec with a twist or a boost and not as if the things you care about have become unimportant or been replaced.”
Maybe I expect a little more twist than just a boost. The only major part of this we will feel would be the haste increase from Solar Grace, which I love!
You should be able to have x4 Sunspots from Avenging Wrath +2 from Your next two spenders after wake. That is an additional 24% haste during Avenging Wrath. That would feel pretty good and impactful.
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Really glad to see Eternal Flame back. But would be also cool if we had the option to use it offensively for Dps instead of just healing.
Holy still has no 1target Holy Power spender to deal dmg. They only have AoE one
Holy perspective feedback:
– name is to long, just shorten it to Herald and let the spec speak for itself.
– i like the theme of the spec, reminds me of when Tirion Fordring called upon the light to break free from the ice against the Lich King, radiating intense light.
– compared to Lightsmith there are many boring talents, ‘Luminosity’ just increasing crit is really boring and should be replaced with something more mechanically and thematically interesting.
– ‘Second Sunrise’ is a mechanically fine talent, but since this exact talent was once an Artifact weapon talent, then a Holy talent, then removed from Holy, only to be re-added as a Hero talent doesn’t make it feel very “Hero”, it feels old and recycled. Giving us back stuff that was previously taken away never feels good, but this feels even worse since it’s meant to be a heroic advancement of our base class.
– Eternal Flame should be useable on allies OR enemies as damage.
– Don’t be afraid to do some crazy stuff, for example: a talent node choice where one of the options reduces our healing by x% but increases our damage by x%. This is a great opportunity to let people play as a Shockadin, it doesn’t have to be viable DPS, just let people have fun specially with Delves being a new endgame mode.
– Since both Ret and Holy have Shield of Righteous i think this Hero spec first core node should replace that ability with something new that thematically ties into this Hero spec and the Sunspot mechanic.
– Considering this Hero specs theme it’s weird there is no talents effecting Consecration.
SotR deals more damage to 1 target.