Feedback: Fel-Scarred Demon Hunter

Classes Demon Hunter
1

Well, I put this post up to try to give useful feedback, however I can’t speak for those who play Vengeance. To my DH comrades I would like to ask to collaborate as much as they can to try to ensure that the Devs give us the best possible version of this HT.

Keep in mind that these opinions are based on how Havoc is currently and that I do not have access to the Alpha to do a more appropriate test.

Demonsurge: The defensive aspect of this ability for Havoc is quite useless, although we tend to be soft at the beginning of an expansion, our survival increases exponentially as expansion go on thanks to the leech, which makes us quite difficult to kill unless we are victims of some type of CC or let’s not do mechanics.

At best, we will be more resilient at the beginning of the expansion and they will have to nerf us as the expansion progresses.

At worst, will have to adjust EVERYTHING to leave us exactly the same as we are now.

Everything said above means that the only relevant thing about this ability seems to be the additional damage, which feels a bit redundant considering the existence of the talent Inner Demon

  • Note: 5/10

Wave of Debilitation & Pursuit of Angryness: The first is excellent, there is not much more to say. The second on the other hand and considering the poor description is almost completely useless, the only scenario in which PoA would be useful in my opinion is in raid and there is a ridiculous overgeneration of resources; but I admit that I could be underestimating its effectiveness and usefulness by not having tried it firsthand.

  • Note: 9/10 & 3/10

Focused hatred: It’s good, standard.

  • Note: 7/10

Set Fire to the Pain & Improved Soul Rending: The first seems to be designed for VDH and the second for HDH, and even if both were viable for both specs I don’t think they would maintain the effectiveness of the first in pvp, I can’t imagine having 10% less damage against fire mages just “because” , this already makes the second better from a more general point of view.

  • Note: 5/10 in general

Burning Bladre: In general, it seems to me to be a very good talent that represents well the fantasy they intend with this HT. Having said that, I think it would be better if it affected all the skills that could be considered attacks with weapons, such as blade dance (among others) for example.

  • Note: 8/10

Violent Transformation: Comparing it to what it does in the VDH it feels a little poor, in general I’m not a fan of sigils, and that it only affects SoF and not ED feels just bad.

  • Note: 5/10

Enduring Torment: Thematically it is correct, mechanically it is just a flat increase in damage and to make matters worse it does not seem to be too impactful, the most interesting thing is the +3% Haste.

  • Note: 6/10

Untethered Fury: so…170 fury? that’s it?

  • Note: 3/10

Student of Suffering & Flamebound: two talents that look good, one for each style, as it should be, unlike the talent that precedes it, which focuses entirely on SoF :neutral_face:

  • Note: 6/10 in general

Monster Rising: … I don’t even know what to say about this, is just “meh” :neutral_face:

  • Note: 5/10

Demonic Intensity: this is good, good.

  • Note: 8/10

Final Reflection

This HT is for me, it’s literally what I play now, and yet the only thing I really feel like it contributes apart from some occasional extra procs when using the metamorphoses CD, is miniature Inner Demons, which is a bit depressing. Maybe if his extra procs didn’t depend on metamorphosis it would be more interesting.

Overall I give him a 7/10, there is “nothing new under the sun”.

Speaking of “nothing new under the sun”, Fel-Scarred and Aldrachi Reaver (remember, Havoc point of view) do not seem to have the intention of contributing anything new, rather of separating appropriately and in a way that is functional for both, those who want a complex DH from those who want a simple one. But I doubt that this could be achieved with HT alone, these should come accompanied by a rework of the class to make it possible.

As far as I’m concerned both HT fail to deliver anything exciting, so my overall grade for both is 6/10

:confused:

2 Likes
2

Untethered fury is definitely better than many of the other talents.

It allows you to waste less resources especially with things such as blind fury.

If anything this is one of the very few talents that has a noticeable effect on the gameplay. Just because it will probably bring downtime to essentially 0.

The rest are either somewhat interesting if they were proccing something else, or more, or just boring passives that add damage on top.

Demonic intensity, we really don’t know what it does, it could be cool, or it could be boring.

For me it’s a 6. It’s not as boring as wildstalker, or even rotationally damaging, but i can’t give it more than that.

I don’t really understand why you gave burning blade an 8/10 when enduring torment got a 6.

If anything torment should be higher, at least you get 3% haste as well as some extra damage.

I think neither deserve more than a 5 though.

3

We need more interactions and less boring passives.

They seem to think that people that don’t want movement builds want to press 3-4 buttons instead.

2 Likes
4

That is true for me :stuck_out_tongue: , but it is one thing to have 3 to 5 buttons and another is to spam CS, we have more than enough skills to incorporate into the empower system of the demon form, the issue for me is that apparently they want to do it with Metamorphosis specifically and not with Demonic, meaning once every 2 min, at least according to how it is described in the talents of the fel-scarred.

Personally I’d prefer a 6-8 second Demonic, with more empowered abilities and adjust things like Sattered Destiny and CoH accordingly. :man_shrugging:

Two to three skills empowered every 2 min. It doesn’t sound fun to me unless they are extremely powerful, which I doubt. But since I don’t have the alpha I can’t test it :frowning: just comment on what I see on paper.

5

I still feel both trees aren’t designed around no mover since that’s all about demon form uptime, so we get a lot less from glaive/out-of-meta nodes, which are the bulk of nodes in both trees. While Fel Scarred thematically seems better, it still feels VERY uninspired and pretty dull. I do like having pretty much all abilities empowered in demon form, but the surge part is lame, and the out-of-meta stuff is too, since the alternative was more meta uptime/stronger meta(could be a choice node for these to appease both burst/sustain playstyles)

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Pursuit of Angryness looks to increase your movement speed by 1% for every 10 Fury you have. Combine this with Untethered Fury (increase max Fury by 50) and Unrestrained Fury in the class tree (increase max Fury by 20) and you’ll have up to 17% increased movement speed if you allow Fury to cap. I can assure you that Veng DHs will be using this in virtually every form of content but raids.

That being said, I think a much better name could be come up with than Pursuit of Angryness. I would much prefer something like Pursuit of Vengeance or Vengeance Will Find You.

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As someone who plays DH, I can say this build sounds completely braindeadly (I hope it doesn’t feel like this in game though). You basically don’t even need to know what you’re doing, just press stuff like if you were playing a hack and slash.

Waiting Blizzard to post their official forum for this, all I think now is that this HT doesn’t make sense, it’s just a buff for the class, gameplay changes in nothing. I hope it doesn’t get insanely op where it’s the only reasonable choice for Havoc to perform decently.

Aldrachi Reaver at least allows you to be less dependent on Metamorphosis.

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“No mover”… Why would someone who identifies as a no mover even play DH. I don’t get why people play the class if they don’t like moving. They want Blizzard to turn Havoc into a Frost DK.

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I don’t remember Illidan dashing around like a moron in WC3, nor do I remember him doing so in BT.

4 Likes
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Just like DK isn’t Arthas.

You are not Illidan, you are a DH. In game class design is not the same as the lore, Tyrande is a priestess that uses arcane, warglaives and bows. And Illidan barely used spells in the game, most part of what he does is just the regular auto attack.

And if Illidan trained DHs, and they dash around… He taught them how to. It’s part of the class identity.

If you want DH to look more like a moron, just remove their dashes, so it will be even more of a hack and slash class with no necessity of learning how to use the class to play it.

The only thing that makes DH a unique class (except from aesthetics) is their mobility. If you don’t like moving just go play DK. A DH player that does not like moving is simply not a DH player. You want to be a Frost DK with warglaives.

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Thats the point of havoc from the beginning :joy:, the initial charm of the class was its simplicity and almost, this just give that back to the people that like original havoc :man_shrugging:

because it was one of the original game forms in Legion and BfA :man_shrugging:

non-mover is even older than mover, momentum in its beginnings was at most half of what it is now. If I could learn to deal with the Ventyr meta :ox::poop: in SL you can learn to deal with the non-mover.

Also, the point of the HT is not so that you can change from one to another depending on the type of gameplay, it is so that it reinforces or create a gameplay style option.

1 Like
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I agree being a hack and slash was the point, but not a “no mover”. Why would Fel Rush and VR exist if the point was not moving around? Just defensives? Why do we get to always choose two charges on Fel Rush then. In Legion there were also legendaries that affected DH’s mobility spells, like VR. Momentum was not the rule but it still existed. Though we always went for Nemesis (very strong for ST) and Fel Eruption. Nemesis is gone, Fel Eruption is baseline iirc? Anyway, Blizzard never designed DH to be a no mover, and they are making it more obvious now. And Momentum now is even easier to manage, we can stack it up to 30 seconds, I don’t see how this is difficult to manage. Inertia is more advanced though, indeed.

It isn’t, because you can’t play DH without moving, even no movers can’t, they just don’t like to move, which is different.

And that’s just talking about PvE. In PvP if you don’t move constantly you are playing it wrong (it was always like that, you need to chase targets, for example), with Momentum or not. In Legion I already had to move constantly due to PvP, even with the Nemesis build. It’s a PvP perspective, but I believe most DH players like to PvP sometimes, even if casually.

This “no mover” thing just sounds like they want the class to be easier, and it is already fairly easy to play. Why make it the new BM hunter? As I said above, the gameplay you’re looking for is Frost DK.

Players choosing a build because it’s easier doesn’t make it original, and as I said, you literally can’t play DH without moving, playing Momentum/Inertia just makes you consciously aware that you have to move, and I believe this is part of why some DH players don’t like it.

Also, it’s easy to move away from the boss/mob and position yourself to go back to your target, just manage your Felblade. The Hunt is also a very nice addition to the class, and the spell looks very good, fantasy and gameplay wise.

I agree with you, it’s about class fantasy, but Fel Scarred doesn’t really sound like it changes DH much to me. DH already plays and feels like “Fel Scarred”, fantasy wise.

13

Not sure if you noticed or not, but these Hero Talents are trying to turn the classes into the Hero Units from WC3.

Rider of the Apocalypse is Arthas.
Fel-Scarred is Illidan.
Sunfury is Kael’thas.
Sentinel is Tyrande.
Keeper of the Grove is Malfurion.

…Need anymore examples? No? Good.

Using Vengeful Retreat for damage isn’t “class identity”, it’s cringe nonsense. I will die on this hill.

4 Likes
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Suggestion/Idea of Talent Tree

Central 1st Talente

Enduring Torment
Havoc
The effects of your demon form persist outside of it in a weakened state, increasing Chaos Strike and Blade Dance damage by 5%, and Haste by 3%

Vengeance
The effects of your demon form persist outside of it in a weakened state, increasing maximum health by 5% and Armor by 20%

Central 2nd Talente

Unleashed
Havoc
Metamorphosis now also increases current and maximum health by 5% and Armor by 20%

Vengeance
Metamorphosis now also empowers Soul Cleave and Spirit Bomb.

Central 3rd Talente

Demonic Fire
While demon form is active, your get a empower versions of Inmolation Aura and Sigil of Flame.

Central 4rd Talente

Student of Suffering/Flamebound
No Changes

Central 5rd Talente (Final)

Demonic Intensity
Activating Metamorphosis greatly empowers Eye Beam./Fel Devastation and is immediately reset.

Spend Fury equal to your maximum Fury induces a Demonsurge, causing you to explode with Fel energy, dealing ((maximum Fury)% of Attack power / 2) Fire damage to nearby enemies. Demonsurge deals 35% increased damage when it strikes a single target.

Left 1st Talente

** Wave of Debilitation/ Pursuit of Angryness**
No Changes

Left 2nd Talente

Fel Furnace
You seethe with Fel energy, your Fury no longer decays over time and you generate 3 Fury every 2 sec.

Left 3rd Talente

Overheated
All your attacks do 5% more damage as fire damage.

Right 1st Talente

Set Fire to the Pain/Improved Soul Rending
No Changes

Right 2nd Talente

Chaotic Flow
Havoc
When out of demon form, Chaos Strike and Blade Dance has a 10% chance to empower your next Chaos Strike and Blade Dance.

Vengeance
Soul Cleave and Spirit Bomb has a 10% chance to empower your next Soul Cleave and Spirit Bomb.

Right 3rd Talente

Monster Rising
No Changes

15

It isn’t.

It isn’t.

It isn’t.

This is closer.

Also close.

Yes, give me one more example like Sentinel, Tyrande, as you said, a PRIEST, is a HUNTER hero talent. Fel-Scarred isn’t Illidan, you made this headcannon yourself. This is not the purpose of hero talents, or just tell me what a Fatebound Rogue is. Yes, you can’t.

It is, since it’s part of the class in the game, and Illidan trained the DHs.

And if you want so hard to be Illidan you shouldn’t be playing blood elf to begin with.

Mobility is part of the class identity, it’s a fact. Play Frost DK or Fury Warrior instead, because you are clearly not a DH player.

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keep in mind that immoa aura does reset for havoc with this hero tree, just wowhead hass issues datamien specific things like that

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I AM MY SCARS!!! They really nailed the class fantasy with this one. All we’re missing now is some amazing animations, which hopefully they are working on. Having Meta become an offensive CD for Vengeance will be fun, even if we can’t always use it that way. We typically Meta when we’re doing big pulls, so having it be both defense and offense will feel great.

For VDH, I give Fel-Scarred a 9/10
(there is always room for improvement).

p.s. Thank you for offering up a feedback thread without biased title. People can offer positive or constructive without feeling like they’re clicking a link that’s tilted.

3 Likes
18

The class fantasy didn’t even change, current DH is the same thing as this in class fantasy terms.

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They need to make warlock’s Subjugate Demon spell work with DH players, and then warlocks can have them as honorary pets. This works in lore, I am sure.

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None of the HTs change the fantasy of the DH either in Havoc or in Vengeance, they only reinforce them in a specific way, the disciplined soul-devouring warrior, and the inner demon that seethes with Fel energy.

But let’s be fair, the DH doesn’t have much accumulated fantasy, in fact what we have is more than what Illidan has XD

1 Like