Well you’d be wrong for starters but I do play it more often as alliance for sure and as alliance I know I don’t want your team to have that gy. Getting it back is very important for our success.
You don’t want us to get it because then you lose in a turtlefest. I know.
I don’t want you spawning behind me. I want you with your back to the wall in frostwolf.
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I was thinking today… why not simply increase the conquest reward for the daily epic bg win? ![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
If they made it say, 100 conquest points that just might entice more Ally to sign up to be these in epic bgs (and thus making Horde queue times shorter).
Currently we get 40 CP for a regular bg and 65 CP for an epic bg, so there’s not much of a gap between them. And epic bgs can sometimes drag on for 45 mins-1 hour so I feel an increase to the reward we get is justified. Also, it’s a 40-player effort versus a 10-man effort, so we should be better rewarded imo.
you want feed back. they are awful right now. only one side really winning them now and that’s horde. they lack any fun at all now a days and with this conquest system you have were have win inorder too get points for gear over the old system that we had pre legion. its all awful now.
I’m having fun ![:cowboy_hat_face:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/cowboy_hat_face.png?v=6" ":cowboy_hat_face:")
, but then again I’m playing more on the Horde side lately
I think IOC could use some changes. Turrets on the gunship should deal drastically less damage to players (it can be almost impossible to defend against the bomb runners when you’re being bombarded instantly. Additionally, Horde have an unfair advantage in defense of the quarry. The Horde gunship (only) passes over either quarry or refinery. The Alliance gunship does not. The quarry should have an invisible shield for so many yards around the quarry to prevent the gunship from killing Alliance at the quarry without even needing to be present or losing time hitting the Alliance gate (docks offer no such retaliation).
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The main problem with IOC is that there’s very little actual PvP that happens. After the initial mass-teamfight the amount of PvP drops to almost none other than the odd, infrequent small skirmish/defending against an inc.
90% of IOC seems to be a) standing around idle guarding a flag/vehicles or b) driving a vehicle/cannon. In other words it becomes this sort of weird PvE session (with a tiny amount of PvP sprinkled in), and PvE just isn’t as fun as PvP.
AV is pretty much the opposite, and is mostly PvP from start to finish (other than the bosses).
AV can vary, but you can win AV with zero pvp.
Since the horde typically get the Siege Engine, it makes sense that you really amp its damage.
Cool story.
But you realize that this doesn’t “fix” anything since the horde are still gonna roflstomp the Alliance on a regular basis. Well, you would if you mained Alliance.
Don’t worry, horde will start winning IoC much more now.
Less Michael Bolton.
You must be remembering AV from last year or before. Horde are winning AV (and every other BG) now.
In terms of rewards, I feel like they could do with an increase but there is the issue of Isle of Conquest. AV is the only one that consistently goes on longer.
The longest AV game I’ve had in the past couple of months: 56:38
The longest IoC game I’ve had: 27:40
You can’t increase rewards for both because one then becomes too rewarding.
One of the things I was wondering was the Enlistment bonus. I haven’t seen this active for Epic Battlegrounds, has anyone? That might encourage more players to queue, particularly when these maps are already quite lucrative in regards to honor - 50% further bonus is quite appealing.
I’d also be interested in exploring specific Epic Battleground lockboxes, that have higher gold/mats/pots etc and slightly higher ilvl gear than the regular battlegrounds.
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Nah, he’s not wrong. Getting Snowfall is bad for Horde if you want the match to end quickly. We need Alliance to have Snowfall so that they don’t keep rezzing in their base.
It’s easier to clean it out when you silly gnomes have Snowfall. Snowfall has no strategic value to us, it’s not a useful place for us to ever spawn given what the meta/battleflow is these days. Taking it just ensures more Alliance keep appearing in the base when we’re trying to bag the Aid Station.
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Good job with the recent IoC tweaks. The BG now works pretty well and neither side seems to have a natural advantage. At least nothing glaring.
But one bug has gone untouched, the “your camera is permanently broken after you exit a Siege Engine cannon” bug. It requires a UI reload to fix, and is hardly convenient in PVP situations.
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So what is the latest?
Looks like IOC is reasonably balanced with bugs etc gone. I am probably winning around 50:50 (queueing solo) at the moment or at least the games are close. Many strategies can win or lose the game.
As for AV, I have won maybe 2 out of the last 12 or so. This is how nearly all the games have gone:
- the usual starting talk … SHGY or SHB strategies are usually ignored
- a few Alliance realise the significance of SHGY and head there or SHB
- 1-2 stay in defense or cap our mine
- 2-3 are afk in the tunnel
- 1-2 headless chickens are just running around exploring or whatever they do
- the rest head to the IBT area and fight for 10-15 minutes slowly being farmed without managing to cap IBT (This is about HK’s right ?)
- Meanwhile, 20 horde defend the IBT area easily and have a roving group to retake towers if the odd alliance has managed to get through.
- 2-3 horde head directly to our base either across the bridge or easily getting in the back way and start annoying the few defenders
- 10+ rush SHB and usually cap it immediately
- the rest look to overwhelm SHGY and usually do with so few defenders ( Hmmm so alliance…why did Blizzard add a heap of snow at that spot ? To make it look pretty?)
- alliance towers are rolled up one by one while our team is still pvping at IBT.
- alliance then find themselves back defending the bridge while our resources are eroding fast (the last two AV I entered mid game and on both occasions the alliance were in bridge defense mode with 2 towers down and no horde towers down)
The two wins came about by defending SHGY and SHB in numbers. However, the horde could have easily stretched us by bypassing and grabbing IWB and our base towers but they were in alliance-mode and just blindly trying to get SHGY/SHB.
So because I have not witnessed many winning games, I am still not sure if this is just the “the better pvper’s are on horde side” … or whether inherently the map still favours horde with the IB choke area so easy to defend.
So if one of the sports betting companies, put odds on alliance winning AV (assuming the horde and alliance teams were set up the same with equally capable players) what would odds be?
TLDR summary: IOC looks OK atm but is AV balanced or does it still favour horde?
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I wouldn’t say it favors horde, but that is only because Ally doesn’t like to defend. From what I usually notice is that no one on ally defends unless they die and they just get stuck defending, like you said most go to Iceblood and HK farm or go attack the tower for about 15 minutes. Horde usually send about 15-20 people to defend their chokepoint while the rest easily get SH and Icewing. The last game I did ally didn’t even try to defend they just let the Horde cap all the bases then proceeded to swear at everyone. If Ally just kept at least 20 at the new graveyard we might actually win a few.
As for your question though, Horde doesn’t really have an advantage, ally just doesn’t defend.
Season 1 reflex(100% solo-queue):
AV: 121 wins/36 losses
IoC: 68 wins/62 losses
overall: 189 wins/98 losses
IoC feedback:
This bg is too short, i’d say on average it lasts 20-25 minutes, perhaps increasing wall health could help increase the duration.
Alliance is able to reliably get their raid group to any node faster than horde out of the gate. even running the best lines for the quickest sprint, i can just barely beat alliance to hanger or mid. and the major difference is that i am usually meeting their whole team while my team mates are still far behind me. this generally means that alliance gets their pick of any base as they will have a group already situated around the flag when horde is just getting there.
Hanger on Horde side provides a chokepoint that expands on this, alliance will get to hanger first, and then cover the choke point as horde is trying to push in to spin the flag.
the changes to the boss health and damage exploits really helped, since then i have had a lot of games where it came down to dps race with losers on both sides finishing with less than 1% left.
overall i’d say that IoC is pretty well balanced considering, my W/L rates are closer to 50/50 than they were in legion, though it may be something to keep an eye on, i suspect horde’s win rate may be going up over 50% with the new changes.
AV Feedback:
there are too many NPCs, from goats to wolves to pats that daze you off your mount. i don’t think all of the NPCs should go, but a lot of the non-essential ones out in the field really should go.
the changes to SHGY i’m not sure were enough, it’s less of a chokepoint and more of a speedbump on the way north. it seems that if alliance teams play to take advantage of this it may work, or it may not. some teams were able to hold off horde to the point of winning while others just got GY farmed for trying.
I agree with your points.
Those IOC and AV wins probably mirror image mine atm although my AV is probably even worse than 25%.
The SHGY change has flown under the Alliance radar in it’s importance. They still see attacking IB as the priority. IMO the other big issue with the alliance side is they see IWB, SHGY and SHB and seem to think “We can’t defend them all so don’t bother”. These three are sufficiently spread that horde could choose the least defended and just run over the top of it. It’s a bit like AB and having to cycle between three bases - it is doable but requires coordination and line of sight.
The 2-3 AV i have won in the last week were due to defending SHB and SHGY in reasonable numbers. This enticed horde forward more so we could start to spread them out. But the games were very very close. The losses have been pretty bad - we might get 2 towers occasionally. It is very painful to watch alliance fight at IBT for 20 minutes while horde cap 2 towers and have started on the other 2.
As for summoning bosses, I am still to see this happen.
Suggestion for AV to test if it’s really balanced: alternate which side (Alliance/Horde) controls what side (Dun Baldar/Frostwolf Hold) weekly. Change nothing about the NPCs (hp, stats, defense, pathing, abilities) except for their skins. It would be very interesting to see if we observe the FW side having a consistently higher margin of success regardless of faction (outside of the first few weeks of confusion to adapt to new strategies).
To be honest, I think this could be adapted to all battlegrounds (switch control of sides up weekly). Maybe maps aren’t as fair for either side as they would seem.
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