Feedback: Elemental Rune Dungeons: Protocol Twilight

Has any consideration been made for the impact on the gem economy of replacing LFR?

Epic gems are sourced solely from the raid, which wasn’t a huge issue LFR was available to players. Now that we’re replacing LFR with protocol dungeons, the ability to source epic gems for your character has been significantly lowered. This is going to greatly inflate an already inflated gem market, and potentially lower the power of characters who aren’t willing/able to pay for these more expensive and hard to source gems.

Could we have a gem only satchel for Obsidian Fragments?

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While I do agree and understand the problem you have pointed out, I don’t think a satchel is the way to go. If the developers really want to incentivize players to complete full clears and not skip runs, they should make it so the last boss drops a mote of darkness. Additionally, they should make the cluster available for purchase from the vendor, not only inside the raid.

Classic team, thanks for taking the time to make a feedback thread.

I personally queued for around 5 or 6 Protocol Twilight dungeons on PTR, all as mage. I have a couple of notes for your consideration.

Blobs

Fundamentally I think the blobs just travel to the boss too quickly. Tanks without a full understanding of the mechanic, who can drag the boss away from the blob spawns, cause the boss to have 3 abilities and I believe that will be extremely hard for appropriately-geared players to contend with. In my opinion the strongest part of the design of the Yor’sahj mechanic is the agency the group has in choosing what they want to face mechanically, but the movement speed of these blobs takes away that agency, and might be too high of a DPS check for many groups - especially at a 353 item level.

I found that against caster groups ill-equipped to deal with the Mana Void mechanic tended to suffer.

During every boss encounter I did not experience the Dark (add-producing) Globule.

Buffs

I only played a caster DPS but I had the opportunity to play with my Melee DPS friends. I have no actionable information on the Tank or Healer buff.

Melee DPS felt that the buffs’ maintenance conditions were too adversarial:

  • Bronze Buff
    The loss of damage due to taking relatively unavoidable damage felt bad for everybody, but seemed to affect Melee DPS disproportionately, so the Bronze buff felt like a poor fit.

  • Blue Buff
    Movement in dungeons is absolutely vital, both during combat and to transit the dungeon campuses in general. The Blue Buff stacked at the same rate as the Bronze Buff, but fell much more often due to running through the instance and required that dungeon groups stand still for nearly two minutes in front of a boss before pulling. For my groups this created awkward gameplay, especially on high-movement encounters, and resulted in the blue buff being nearly unusable.

As a caster I found myself using the Bronze Buff overwhelmingly often, and found myself frustrated when an encounter would cause many instances of damage within a short window of time (Siamat, Karsh Steelbender). On fights like Karsh (high-damage, low movement) there might be a use case for Blue, but on fights like Siamat where movement (forced movement through being thrown around) and damage (chain lightning) are both frequent, there is a lack of player agency and a feeling of punishment where it isn’t deserved.

Difficulty

DPS checks on the blobs felt extremely high. At a high gear level the dungeons generally felt like hack-and-slash encounters, which was rewarding to a point, but I imagine the bosses will cause issue for players with lower, intended item levels.

Gearing

The only real disappointment of the entire Protocol Twilight experience was a lack of transparency in gearing. The announcement for the system gave four bullet points regarding the distribution of loot from the final boss, but those bullet points offer separate, valid interpretations of anywhere from 3 to 5 pieces dropping.

Second, not having any context of Obsidian Fragment prices leaves a lot of unanswered questions for my live Cataclysm guild, including a question of the approximate time investment we will need to allocate toward this dungeon system.

Finally, it is ambiguous if the available items from the Obsidian Fragment vendor will consist of every LFR tier piece or just “weapons and jewelry”.

Fun

Entirely subjective, but I really enjoyed these dungeons as a Dragonwrath Fire Mage. My damage felt unreasonably high and my massive Combust spreads were the envy of my friend group, but as an end-of-expansion gear catchup I enjoyed being able to enter, have a good time with my friends, and be rewarded for having fun. I imagine that these will give a good deal of enjoyment and fulfillment for me and my friends as we use the system to grind out LFR gear.

I hope you will find any of this feedback actionable.

Troparia-Faerlina

Please add the Well of Eternity, Hour of Twilight and End Time dungeons to the heroic++ Protocol Twilight list of dungeons under the Random Protocol Twilight dungeon list. They drop a minimum of 378 ilvl which doesn’t really matter when people are going to be spamming the Protocol Twilight dungeons for better ilvl gear purchasable through the new Obsidian vendor. People straight up just won’t do these new Hour of twilight dungeons outside of once for a gimmick like ZA and ZG, please add them so that they can be re-experienced again.

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Can someone explain to me the logic behind Normal Tier loot and Normal weapons? For Firelands I could buy that normal weapons were necessary to keep the market for the new 365 weapons from professions. No such competition exists for these 378 weapons. Normal Tier loot also makes no sense if the rest of the gear is 391 or Dragonsoul Raid Finder level. Why punish people who want to gear alts, but don’t have the time to raid on multiple characters.

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Blizzard will not do this, as they already provided their reasoning back in Wrath of the Lich King when the Icecrown Citadel dungeons were released. Additionally, if Blizzard is not implementing this for Zul’Aman and Zul’Gurub, there is no justification to do so for the new Hour of Twilight dungeons.

This is not punishing alts. The vendor allowing LFR gear to be purchased from completing Ti dungeons is actually making gearing alts easier.

Please explain your reasoning behind considering LFR gear being easier to obtain with little to no RNG as punishing.

you mean those same dungeons that got added to the Gamma Protocol queue day one without getting the Gamma changes?

i guarantee people only ran them because they were part of the Gamma list and otherwise they wouldn’t have a reason to run them instead of a Gamma

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Yes, while I can see adding these dungeons to the Ti list and allowing for fragments to drop would be fine, they do not need the new mechanics or the LFR gear to drop from the last boss.

Towards the end of wrath, the queue would basically only ever pop Forge of Souls, because it counted as a gamma and was the fastest dungeon in the rotation.

Doesnt it put the thing in your bag in everyones inventory to summon it in the middle of the dunguen or anywhere in there.

Yes, you receive a ring that summons an NPC who provides you with a buff. However, if another player uses it right after you, your NPC will disappear. Only 1 NPC can be active at a time.