Feedback: Druids

In Development Undermine(d) PTR Discussion
64

I’m also sad to see Convoke isn’t changed to pertain do spells by form.

Human / Healer Caster - Heals only

Cat / Melee - Cat DPS only

Bear / Tank - Tank Spells only (Also its unique ability to proc is pulverize and that is basically weak garbage, consider it procing Lunar Beam instead)

Moonkin / DPS Caster - Moonkin Spells Only

I’m also sad to see Convoke wasn’t elaborated neither was Incarnation for Keeper of the Grove.

Keeper of the Grove is very Treants dependent.

This fell short for Boomkin leaving us feeling weird using Force of Nature, when people would much rather have the MoP / WoD - Guardian of the Grove (DPS) version returned.

This turned restoration druid to using Treants as a heal amp during ramp windows, and dream petal range and overhealing wasn’t addressed.

I would’ve love the Tree to define and alter the playstyle, changing the way Incarnation works.

As well as changing how Convoke works.

Especially more so for the “exceptional ability” tooltip / modifier talent choice node.

Instead of every 3rd cast it be every cast it does one.

Example Resto Druid

1st Cast - Summons 3 Treants.
2nd Cast - Gives Incarnation for 10 Seconds.
3rd Cast - Proc Flourish

Example Boomkin

1st Cast - Summons Force of Nature.
2nd Cast - Gives Incarnation for 10 Seconds.
3rd Cast - Proc Full Moon

Example Guardian
1st Cast - Rage of the Sleeper.
2nd Cast - Gives Incarnation for 10 Seconds.
3rd Cast - Procs Lunar Beam

Example Feral
1st Cast - Full Combo Point Primal Wrath
2nd Cast - Gives Incarnation for 10 Seconds.
3rd Cast - Feral Frenzy

(Mind you I don’t want it at 100% effectiveness for these procs and 100% durations, these are just suggestions with Dev balancing to be imposed )

It doesn’t have to be engraved in the Hero Tree but it would definitely increase viability not locking us as Rdruids into incarnation.

Also, it would be fun and cool; just to update the change in general.

But we prob have to remove the 15 sec off Convoke from Keeper of the Grove.

I’m a firm believer that Incarnation belongs in the base tree and we should be able to have Convoke and Incarnation.

65

/.cough

Bring back Yseras Gift for all the specs again >.>

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66

I think Call of the Elder Druid should be a node choice in the Class tree with Heart of the Wild, and Master Shapeshifter should be in its vacant spot in the Resto tree. I don’t think it makes any sense that it should compete with Liveliness.

Now, since Resto needs to choose between Feral dps / Balance dps, they need to include Starfire in the Tree of Life’s boosted spells. Of course it can’t be instant like Wrath, but it could have a 1.5 cast time. This is because there’s gonna be no more catweaving to Swipe/Thrash if you choose the ‘spellcaster’ route.

I do prefer dpsing as a caster in PVE content, but the kit is just not as good as the Cat route, especially considering that Wildstalker does it much better.

Actually I think Fluid Form should include - all - spells.

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67

Resto Druid issues

Playing on my Druid the hots feel weak and there is no way my hots are going to keep a group up while I use so many gcds to shift into cat do damage and shift back out before everyone is dead. Even if I am able to shift out of cat form I am pretty much spamming regrowth to try and get everyone back up to full. Regrowth is just a weak version of a direct heal.

Mistweaver in contrast feels fluid with dps and healing.

My suggestion would be to somehow make it so healing spells can be cast in cat form or do something with hots so they can sustain a life bar while so many gcds are being used to dps in cat form.

68

If they want to keep Moomkin out of reach for Resto Druids, they might as well remove Cat Form from Resto Druids as well and just let them claw and bite stuff in their normal form.

That’s about how the logic for removing Moonkin form sounds.

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69

I think if you really want to sell the dps type split youre going to need to update the Hero tree’s dps components to include an option for both now. We’re healers first but having your dps style pretty much forced from the type of healing you want to do is going to feel bad across all types of content.

If i want to heal with treants i shouldnt have to give up catweaving but the tree has no interactions with any of the cat stuff, if i want the mastery/bloom focus of wildstalker i shouldnt have give up spellcasting but outside of a moon/sunfire buff theres no interaction in the kit.
With the hybrid profiles that was fine because youre using all the spells anyway, rake still hit hard enough as keeper, starsurge could still do decent damage from range as wildstalker; but with the baseline nerfs that flexibility is going away and youre pretty much forced into dps choices based on youre healing choices.
And if we’re keeping hero talents for awhile this will be a multi-expansion problem.

Doing something like adding rake(buffed every 5 regrowths cast ) and rip (every 5 casts buffs regrowth) to blooming and moonfire to the list of bloodseeker procs (which tbh its still unfair feral gets both baseline vines/blooms cause regrowth but resto has to pay talents to unlock bloodseeker) would help fix that before it becomes a problem; still favoring a dps type but not outright forcing it.

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70

This, and fluid form removed as a talent and made baseline… how we have to talent into QoL is ridiculous.

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71

Yeah, that makes sense… If they really wanted to make that kind of QoL thing a talent, it probably should come with something else baked in. I’d say something like, or even, the effect of that new Lycara Meditation, letting you carry a stat to another shapeshift for a few seconds.

72

Anyways like I was saying five days ago…

The point of the spec is healing and having talents that impact healing or vary the delivery mechanism should be the goal of spec talents. A flat 25% buff to either magic or physical damage on a healer misses the point. If damage is low, buff it baseline without the talent tax.

Further, a Druid walks between its many lives. A savage protector and hunter, a starbound sage, a friend to life… Forcing to choose between physical or magic not only misses the issue of Resto being a largely predictive healer, but it discounts the mixed identity of a Druid. It also ignores GCD hunger differences between, say, stacking combo points versus clicking Starsurge. Again, delivery mechanisms are the sub-type identities–their different opportunities matter more than a flat 25% to either.

In other words, a 25% buff to a pre-nerfed off-role utility won’t register as a purposeful option, even if required to be competitive to the other healer options who function without it.

As I look down the remaining feedback, I am reinforced in my original position that this change doesn’t cater to the player, but some other arbitrary internal benchmark. In other words… You still don't get it.

3 Likes
73

TLDR: Class tree update good overall, but make fluid form baseline with more, improve capstone nodes to have more impract, improve survivability a bit more esp in thr context of what balance has access to.

Some of this may have already been said but I just wanted to add in my ‘feedback’ on the matter hoping the already good changes can be made just a bit better before implementation:

-Fluid form
It should just be part of the class baseline. It should be expanded to include more like starsurge, starfall, and even moonfire and sunfire in balance spec. Basically anything that should be cast in balance form for the damage increase (if known).

Same with anything that has to be in cat form or bear form, too, with, as they have already done, skull bash, thrash, and swipe default to cat unless you are already in bear form. This talent has been SUCH a QOL improvement but it almost feels like with the pace of the game now, it should be baked into the class and expanded upon.

In place of fluid form on the tree, maybe a final barkskin option node (since all specs have it and its iconic!). It could be a choice between a 2nd charge of barkskin but with a 30 sec increased cooldown (or maybe just additional magic damage reduction instead) with the other choice being an interruption immunity with a 15 sec cooldown reduction (which could be a great needed pvp option for the casters with the possible magic damage reduction being useful for all at any time).

-Symbiotic Relationship
This is a great idea but there should be a non healer option to give it more value for balance, for example, who struggles to self-heal much in instanced settings. Maybe instead, have a choice node where its current iteration can be taken OR a version that replicates a small % like 3% or so of your damage as healing on that target ans their self-healing replicates 3% healing on you. Something like this would not only work well in pve but may have a place in pvp too. It would also help with, again, for example, balance’s atrocious survivability.

-Forest Walk
This also feels a bit weak and/or only for specific specs like possibly feral and/guardian with their often proccing instant regrowths. Maybe provide a choice node called Forest Song where upon entering combat and every 20 second (or some good amount of time) after that, regrowth can be cast instantly and upon casting the instant cast regrowth, the caster can then move while casting for 6 seconds. Even feral and guardian could benefit from this if they heal themselves and need to continue to heal themselves as they often do in various situations, they’d be able to continue moving while doing about 2-3 more regrowths (or entangling roots or cyclones) and then hopefully fluid form baseline :blush: back into whatever they need again.

These are just a few thoughts for now.

Basically fluid form baseline and IMPROVE the capstone options to have more impact while considering the class’s overall survivability especially balance.

A personal wish: We really could use some casting while moving again. Praise be the long lost Stellar Drift.

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74

Don’t hurt catweaving players just because boomy was removed.
It’s sad, but maybe they’ll bring it back.

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75

I think it would help a lot simply if Resto could get Adaptive Swarm back. I thought that did pretty good damage all by itself.

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76

These look pretty decent changes to me so far. However, now the dev’s need to look through the Class tree and make a few changes from that hot mess. And seriously, Moonkin Form needs to be put back into the Resto tree. Or, the original Tree form with the original values updated to today’s gameplay. Being immune to Polymorph is a major part of the class fantasy.

3 Likes
77

Can someone explain this to me? It still feels like I’m forced to take talents that are otherwise useless until at least level 72 Druid of the Claw. And then the level 68 and 70 talent points are similarly, dead as I can’t see anything worth spending them on. (Fluid Form seems like it would synergize with Wildshape Mastery… but I am DPS, why would I ever want to press mangle when it does less damage than shred???)

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78

Why does Rejuvenate and Wild Growth have to pop you out of Moonkin form while Regrowth doesn’t? It’s very unnecessary and clunky and any heal should be like Regrowth.

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79

its because of the age old hybrid tax that is gone for every class but druids. druids are the only hybrid class thats still paying this tax

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80

I find it odd you can word of glory someone which if they’re low hp is effectively a lay on hands in a global but this stuff shifts your form for minimal benefit. Seems very dated indeed.

81

its because unlike druids pallys have a dev that understands the class and cares. druids feel like we have had the tiniest change in 20 years and are mostly the same as vanilla except for healing which feels worse. i wish we had a dev that cared about this class even half as much as other devs do. been playing a druid for almost 20 years and this season was the first time i benched my druid after playing for a month cause it just didnt feel fun. i also have 0 intention to play my druid in the future past getting some mogs.

3 Likes
82

Interesting read, coming to think about it…

They said somewhere that the reason was to reduce some kind of rotational bloat for the resto-dpser rotation, if I’m remembering correctly. However, first off: people were actually giving that feedback?

Secondly, the option of going Feral-dps or Spell-dps didn’t already come naturally with the talent picks? If a Resto chose the right side of the class tree, they probably wouldn’t pop much in cat form to fill in whatever dps void… because you still need to heal.

Just like I don’t think Wildstalkers really go all the way to use Balance spells to damage. If you spend your energy, again you probably should be refreshing HoTs in that meantime. At least that’s been my experience, but I’m far from a very skilled player, so maybe it’s not always like that.

1 Like
83

Are there any plans to add easier hot spread or hot extension with 11.1?

Would love it if finishing moves in cat or star surge casts in caster would extend hots via dream of cenarius rather than converting DMG to healing. Abilities during heart of the wild extending hots could also be really rewarding.

Germination casting rejuv on two targets at once would be a nice quality of life improvement rather than two on one target.

I’d like to see more power put into hots as well instead of simply being buffers for regrowth.

3 Likes