Feedback: Diabolist Warlock in The War Within

Classes Warlock
103

Rework?? Its the best caster in the game lmao

104

Flames of Xoroth is incredibly underwhelming for a “Hero Talent”. Please make it more enticing.

1 Like
105

Warlock is the best caster in the game? Are you talking as far as your personal preference? Are you talking theme? Are you talking about performance in raid/m+/pvp?

Because for some of those, it is very much not the best class in the game.

2 Likes
106

It’s not the best caster in the game, not even close.

Warlock was downgraded compared to s4 shadowlands, how can it be the best caster?

They took away a big portion of what actually made it fun, and refuse to improve what they could.

So no, destro is not the “best caster” Not even close, none of the warlock specs are. They have been downgraded even compared to the start of dragonflight in terms of gameplay, and we still have very similar problems.

So nothing was fixed aside from a couple of things for aff, and gameplay was downgraded, how does that result in “the best caster in the game” it doesn’t.

1 Like
107

This won’t be nearly as well spoken as some others here, but lock player since 08 and demo since Legion.

  1. Totally arbitrary, but Hellcaller 100% fits this combo better. Between this gaf and BM/MM being Dark Ranger, I’m unfortunately suspecting you’re saving the “coolest” names for what you’re predicting will be the most popular choice.

  2. This looks phenomenal, if a little boring for demo, but way more exciting for destro. As a demo lock, I’m always happy to have more crazy demon summons (which this tree delivers), but destro gets that cool “cross spec” excitement where demo doesn’t. Demo will probably proc quicker, but in the end destro gets a Pit Lord and I don’t get to use my green fire :frowning:

1 Like
108

The Diabolic Ritual looks fine enough, but I must admit that I am rather disappointed because I was hoping to see a return of Metamorphosis in some form. Honestly, what I would like to see is replace the choice node for Cruelty of Kerxan/Infernal Machine with something like:

Demonic Possession - Nether Portal , Summon Demonic Tyrant , and Summon Infernal cause you to transform into a demon for x seconds, granting you 10% more damage and (Demo: transforming Shadowbolt into Shadowbolt Volley (More damage and consumes Demonic Core for instant casts and one more shard)) (Destro: give you an Immolation Aura (Constant AoE fire damage and generation of shards))

But of course, this is mostly just me wanting Metamorphosis back on Warlock!

6 Likes
109

They are in every comp in MDI and AWC. Just learn to play your class better.

1 Like
110

You don’t seem to understand what’s been talked about.

I won’t give you the answer, use that brain for once.

111

For ruination, if you have havoc up and cast this, will it call down 2 meteors, both of which will do AoE, and both summoning 3 imps each, for a total of 6 imps?

1 Like
112

hey, just to say that the diabolist talent tree seems awesome, ofc it needs some improvement specially for destro ,but overall excellent job, my issues here are mainly 3:

  1. Flame of Xoroth is too weak and irrelevant the dmgs should be buffed to at least 5-8% and CB needs to be added or just replace the talent with something else

  2. Ruination its cool but has some interactive problems with destro, first off there’s no use for wild imps as destro, Demo benefits A LOT from this because of bigger implosions but destro does nothing, plz replace these 3 wild imps for 3 mini infernals similar to the artifact keystone Lord of flames in legion, also add RoF to the formula because casting CB into an aoe pack feels awful.

  3. Gloom of Nathreza : needs to be similar for destro, you had pushed that 5% dmgs increase on a single target from havoc way to many times and it always end in the same spot, useless and irrelevant plz just make it similar as demo but with RoF and CB

2 Likes
113

The major issues I have with it is that any ‘Choice’ node that they attach to the hero talent is no longer a choice in any way shape or form. You MUST take that talent or you will have ‘dead’ levels, or in the case of say Druid’s Grovetender or the Priest’s now deleted Oracle your ENTIRE hero tree is dead.

That is a complete failure of design. The foundational must be attached to a baseline ability, otherwise the entire design is a failure. Even just a few nodes forcing certain choices and pathing is highly undesirable from a flexibility and player agency stand point.

Edit: In fact upon thinking a bit more about it, I believe that would be a much better route for the ‘hero talents’ to take. Don’t mess about with the talent abilities, but instead customize the basic abilities of the class or spec. Change the FX and some functionality to better tailor it to the class fantasy they are trying to exhibit.

114

As a player that does mostly Solo content these days, I am not thinking about Mythic+ or even Raiding in particular. I have two Destruction Warlocks at present, with slightly different builds as my newer one was trying Channel Demonfire and Infernal I kind of like it. And that’s single target most of the time, without spreading the Immolate goodness around. With those and Dimensional Rift I can take on some of the Rares and three-person quest goals without many issues. Even with only a Voidwalker out (couldn’t do that in TBC).

What about adding in the old Fel Flame spell into this thing (or Hellcaller for that matter) Either as a spell again, or as an effect result of some of these nodes. It was shadowflame damage rather than chaos damage, but that can be shifted since that spell was removed in WoD.

I liked it in MISTS as a mobility filler spell, as Destro Warlocks have few movement spells. It was also a good trash finisher or old-world low-level mob killer if doing Loremaster stuff.

Maybe roll it in to Flames of Xoroth. Change Incinerate and/Shadowbolt to Fel Flame and all it to be cast on the move (instead of the old instant cast). Have it still follow the other properties of Incierate and Shadowbolt for their respective specs in terms of shard generation but allow the movement and green flame to give the node some flavor. Since it was shadowflame, other talents that buff shadow and fire damage should probably work on it. Rather than changing it to chaos damage and have those buffs do nothing. Any talent that effected Incinerate or Shadowbolt would still apply to Fel Flame.

It the many years of playing, I don’t think I have ever used Cataclysm. Rain of Fire, sure loads of times, but never Cataclysm (or at least not in memory…might have tried it once when it came out, but not since). Use to use Fire & Brimstone, but not in a while. Havoc…well I usually just run World content and leveling content these days, so I’ve gone with Mayhem lately. I imagine this will remain for Delves.

Actually, the Hero Talents might be geared for Delves.

1 Like
115

They stated from the beginning that the Hero Talent trees would have interactions with the class and spec trees. It does take some choice away from builds, but there’s a whole other Hero tree for each warlock spec and as long as they don’t have the same talents being modified in both you’ll still have a choice there at least.

I’m hoping that some of the talents they’re deciding to put into the Hero trees get moved around some. The Demo ones for Diabolist are easy enough to get to and most people take them, but Destro would have to use 2 points to get to Cata in single target situations and that feels bad because the 2 points are for AoE.

1 Like
116

I have to admit from a druid player’s perspective this looks pretty sick lol. Imagine being in an epic random battleground and you got locks summoning overlord’s mother of chaos, and Pitlords that would be hilarious to see.

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117

they would be pretty tiny to be honest, i wish they double the size of the pit lord at least

1 Like
118

I would like to point out that simply because warlocks were in MDI and AWC doesn’t mean they are the best caster in the game.

I assume you’re not trying to actually assert that point because that would be incredibly dumb.

1 Like
119

Right, I’m fine with having some hero talents focus on talents that are thematic.

What I have issue with is Cataclysm and it’s current place in the talent tree. Currently, you need to spend 3 talent points that are useless in single target to get Cataclysm and they don’t even connect to anything else of use really since they are completely off on the side.

How are they going to balance the 3 talent point penalty for having to grab Cataclysm in single target? Of course they could make it baseline or change its position in the talent tree or do something else to help out with that and that’s fine. Just don’t force talents that will incur a large penalty or are completely useless like Rain of Fire and Pyrogenics in single target.

2 Likes
120

In my previous posts i have focused mostly towards throughput talents but after some consideration, i think it would be good to give some of my opinions on some of the utility related talents.

Soul-Etched Circle

I think this perk effect would have a better Reception in the Hero Talent connecting Destro-Aff, While its a nice effect, Demonology is the one warlock spec who can have incredibly reliable 1-shard generation thanks to our 1-shard generation in shadowbolt or 2-shard generation in Demonbolt something who is different for Destruction who generates shard bits in the importance of 0.1 to 0.3 shards on Immolate/Incinerate/Conflagrate and Affliction Agony-thicking based shard gen.

Annihilan’s bellow

I Honestly like Howl of Terror, but i believe for a caster, Howl of Terror asking you to be in melee range can be a bit problematic in some cases, regardless it does see some uses in PVE from time to time on organized pulls.

Sadly, the nature of Fear causing enemies to run-away is a bit problematic to be used in a more “free way”, as suddenly fearing 5 enemies can literally cause issues in keystones and even raid and sadly Howl of Terror does not synergize with Horrify.

The Target Cap of 5 and asking for you to be in melee range are also both characteristics who make Howl of Terror a bit less desirable in PVE, given the nature of this as a Hero Talent Upgrade wouldn’t it be possible to offer an increase target cap or X-yards cast range instead of making it centered around the player?

Infernal Vitality

Usually, the way we use UResolve is preventively, activating it 1 second or two before we take damage in order to better mitigate the Hit Taken with a 25/40% mitigation, so in quite a few situations this effect activating alonside UR will result in Overhealing.

Maybe that is already considered, and would explain why this effect offers a “30% hp healing” against the “10% shield” of Infernal Bulwark but overall, with how UR works it does make me think a 3% max hp per second for 10s is a bit odd.

Infernal Bulwark
Truth be told, both effects in Infernal Vitality and Bulwark end up filling objectives towards the Warlock Defensive toolkit, who does make me wonder if there will ever be truly a choice among the two nodes or simply just “pick the better one”.

Due to that, i would rather prefer instead of having a Choice centered around Unending Resolve, we could have something around one of other mitigation effects Destruction/Demonology have.

Given the Tree seems to be heavily flavored around demons it could make sense for improved aspects towards Soul Link, Fel Armor OR Demon Skin, would also be worth to mention some of those effects have been nerfed during DF Beta due to concerns of “how strong warlock survivability got with Dragonflight trees”.

On a bit of a side note, i would also like to mention that the Tertiary stat Leech for Demonology warlocks have always been a bit of a underpowered tertiary stat, as a large portion of our damage is based around Pet Damage, and the Damage done by pets does not convert as healing for the Warlock.

4 Likes
121

I think its garbage. Not only are you forcing us to take talents we may not want to take. But if we want to line up the 20 sec burst window, adds spawns or moving from pack to pact from these new talents we are forced to spam shadowbolt at max shards cause we cant use a spender. I know it comes round quick, but if your worth your salt you either want this at the begining of a pack or right when your trinkets and offensive CD’s are ready.

And assuming the demons that spawn do different things like AOE and solid single target, when the wrong demon spawns it wont free great. You may have to cycle though 2 demons to get the one you want. This is NOT good class design.

This is covenants on steroids, in the end it doesnt matter how cool or what else you put in there we will just take what give the most dps. This is a waste of developers time.

122

Having taken in what Kalamazi has said, I really think Blizzard need to clarify some things, specifically:

Will Inferno and Cataclysm still be a choice node, or will they be separated?

and,

Will Nether Portal still be Demonology only, or will it be reworked to fit into the Class tree?

Personally, I believe they will make Cataclysm a standalone talent.
As for NP, if reworked, it could make for a good Warlock capstone talent (though, to be fair, that’s not a high bar to clear!).

3 Likes