I’m not saying it’s the prevalent argument, but you absolutely need to take into account how an ability might kill people. I agree it’s a player side issue, not a designer one, but that doesn’t mean it stops existing just because it’s up to the player.
Wow isn’t a “high skill floor, high skill cap”, not if they want to get the most reccurent players. But a “relative low skill floor and very high skill cap” is better. Meaning you don’t punish people for being bad, but the better they do the better the reward.
Please drop that silly argument, as soon as you can doesn’t mean “as soon as it’s off CD” necessarily, it means make sure you move where you will be able to use it asap (tactically)
There’s no contradiction here.
However that doesn’t invalidate how you feel about it, so keep up the feedback.
I’m only going off what they have told us and I think it’s relevant to point this out to highlight how silly it’s going to feel to have my cooldown ready but unable to use because it’s a phase of the fight where fire spawns under everyone and we have to move as a group.
They’ve also told us it will hit hard but it also has a cooldown to match warbreaker/colossus smash so I don’t believe that very much either.
People will absolutely die because of this, or at worst just not pick it to avoid situations like I said above, at which point what is being added here? What is the value of this flavor if the immediate response to many is ick?
This flavor is not good. There are other ways to make demolish unique and instead they just recycled a legendary effect that is widely maligned.
Fist of Fury worked fine but it was a hassle.
Eye beam works fine. I admit i haven’t logged in my DH for months, so i might we wrong, but isn’t it a cancelable channel ? Which would make sense since it’s longer than 2 seconds.
In itself, a 2 seconds root isn’t really THAT annoying. But it’s just annoying enough because it breaks the overall flow of the spec. Arms, more than Prot, since prot kinda stays put, as a tank.
But Arms ? You’re moving around the boss, you get that spell that “feels like you really wanna press it as soon as possible”, and… suddently you’re “damn i can’t use it”, or “damn, i can’t move”.
It’s not a huge issue. But it’s just not good.
And since this is supposed to be the feedback channel, that’s feedback.
Eyebeam is also insanely fast, and if the demolish channel is so fast that the root isn’t noticeable, it raises the question of why have the root at all?
Just cut it out. Right now my legendary channel is 2.1 seconds, so about as long as the demolish cast and being rooted for that long every 30-40 seconds does not sound enjoyable on many encounters.
And holding it because we’re doing a fire dance and I’m not allowed to push my button isn’t going to make me think “wow this is very tactical”, it’s going to make me swap to slayer and just ignore the whole tree.
Please drop that silly argument, as soon as you can doesn’t mean “as soon as it’s off CD” necessarily, it means make sure you move where you will be able to use it asap (tactically)
But it’s meant to be used with Colossus Smash.
Are you saying that for this new version of Arms, you need to delay your dmg window until you’re sure you can safely use Demolish, even when your class is melee and never had an issue dps-ing while moving ?
The channeling of it is flavor, yeah. you like chaneling abilities or you don’t. I don’t mind having a break when using bladestorm or fists of fury.
But the root ? 2 sec root isn’t much but it isn’t fun. And people WILL die from it. Maybe not top tiers, gold parses. But green, blue, even purple parses will.
Also, on a broader theme… Fist of Fury was a hassle, they removed the root. The Prot Legion Artifact power is at best forgettable. The on-use on Fyralath is mostly seen as a bad.
They all involve making a melee class unable to move. On the same note, you could kind of add the latest prot pala tiers set in the mix. How did the war class designer thought locking the main selling point of the hero tree behind a root (albeit short) would work this time ? It’s just disruptive and not fun
I think it would be interesting to have 2 major themes going for this tree:
1 - you stack for a destruction burst
2 - you got to keep a high stack count most of the time because they buff you
So, following theme one, you would have options to get maximum stacks before every destruction window and the stacks would buff destruction massively, but not much else, while in theme two you wouldn’t have destruction, or wouldn’t use it, the stacks would have a timer and the talents would give you buffs accordingly to the amount of stacks.
Another thing of note, I like the idea of the fixed passive buffs being not a talent but something you acquire with each node, for example: for each node learned of the colossus tree you get 0,5% DMG, 0,25% DMG reduction and 0,5% size.
It could be even better if all talents, save from the first and capstone, would be option talents, and we do the fixed ones things you acquire with each node, even if this means a shorter tree (but more diverse with all the options).
Another thing that I think would go well with the colossus fantasy would be the warrior jump creating a crater or some other floor effect. This could be used, for example, as a way to keep enemies encased inside the crater for a few seconds.
And finally, I believe that part of the fantasy of colossus could be to allow prot to equip a 2H in one hand and a shield in the other (or as buckler).
Weird, I tried to look up your logs to compare, and I couldn’t find any. Maybe if you’re gonna call out someone’s mythic logs while not even looking at logs for any other difficulty, you should be less of an absolute coward and post on your main? Unless that can’t-even-do-LFR druid is your main, which would make a lot of sense.
Another thing of note, I like the idea of the fixed passive buffs being not a talent but something you acquire with each node, for example: for each node learned of the colossus tree you get 0,5% DMG, 0,25% DMG reduction and 0,5% size.
I like the idea, but in this context, where we know we’ll get all talents, it’s a bit limiting. Your idea works well when there’s a lot of talents to take, and lots of choices.
But you could have 3 to 5 choice nodes, each possible choice being either Red or Blue, with a later talent giving you either X dmg for each Blue choice, or X dmg reduction for each Red. Could have fun interactions, like giving the Red dmg oriented skills with a passive dmg reduction, and the Blue defensive oriented skills with a passive dmg increase.
Even better, make the Red/Blue final node a choice in itself, and say stuff like “you either gain +dmg and -def for each red”, or “+def and -movement speed for each blue”. Dunno, i’m just throwing ideas.
“Get Good” isn’t a good argument. But “you’re a coward and that should stop you from argumenting” isn’t nice either
Why do you disagree with his argument “grey parsers” shouldn’t have a voice in the discussion until they get good ? (yeah the phrasing of my question isn’t that good either).
The channel on demolish is fine as long as the animation is sick and it does good damage. I am a bit concerned about the root if the range of the ability is low. Overall looks like a decent tree and excited for the warrior talent rework.
When I initially saw demolish I thought “Oh, a bladestorm that you still get to use in single target, that’s pretty cool”
I no longer think it’s cool after the clarification that it roots you.
Mechanically, demolish only does damage and is a medium CD rotational ability. If your damage is tuned around having demolish, then all that is gained is periodically being rooted for no particular reason. I don’t see a benefit here at all, especially given that it’s competing in this role with colossus smash for arms warrior, contributing to unnecessary rotational bloat.
Thematically, the proposed archetype isn’t represented well, apart from the 5% size increase. Most of the colossus path is standard passive damage increases that will be balanced into meaninglessness, it hasn’t brought any interesting new ability interactions to the table ( I don’t see the shockwave knock-up as particularly valuable or interesting) and in terms of justification for the core ability having a major downside, “Flavour” is striking me as quite patronizing given that the flavour was invented specifically for this hero tree. You can just change it to be whatever you want, your hands aren’t being tied by a decision that was made for you.
When I read “veterans of countless battles” I don’t think “So huge and beefy they forgot how to walk”, I’d rather see something that ties warriors into an identity as a master of warfare instead of just being good at fighting. Commanders with unparalleled battlefield awareness and strategic knowledge. Basically, a really great excuse to bring back banners in some capacity or introduce some other kind of group/raid-wide utility.
This one ain’t hitting right for me. Please, please put some more thought into this. People’s first thought when they read the first skill in the tree called “Colossus” shouldn’t be “I wonder if I can go gnome to racial out of the root”
Pretty much this. The colossus warrior isn’t going to be dealing many times over the damage of any other class that can DPS, only it has to deal with being rooted occasionally and, based on blizzard’s own wording, need to think carefully about when to use their ability.
Players are not going to do this, they are just going to use another hero talent tree.
Why would I deal with the possibility of my hero spec getting me killed at worst, or simply not using it as frequently as another hero spec because I’m waiting for mechanics when I could play something else, deal the same damage and not have to worry about an accidental death ever?
Again, what is the value in this flavor that the root is supposed to represent? We won’t be the best melee dps ever and instead will have to, in blizzard’s own words, think very carefully about how to use this ability.
Do you think players want to do all this careful planning and thinking ahead just so their hero spec is on par with the others?
"Please, please put some more thought into this. People’s first thought when they read the first skill in the tree called “Colossus” shouldn’t be “I wonder if I can go gnome to racial out of the root”
That’s actually a good point. Imagine if the optimal strategy is a Gnome Colossus. They’re not thinking any of this through to its logical conclusion.
what if instead demolish was 3 swings infront of you over 2-3 seconds in a 90% arc that extends its range each swing, no root, maybe a 25% slow on us if anything.
First swing - a low leg sweeping swing , if you want to be nice add a .5 second knockdown to this, maybe a slow if not. range is melee range. This swing deals less damage than the other two of course.
second swing is a full swing from the side, goes out a couple yards further. Possibly the big hitter upfront of the 3.
Third swing, biggest range - this one is more of a ground slam like shockwave, goes out the furthest, for balance sake this one could leave a dot on things, doesn’t hit has hard up front as the second swing, but if you include the dot will deal more damage overall.
Or, make demolish a two part attack.
First attack, 1 second cast time / wind up time, swings in a big arc after of which lets you pretty much use it again on an instant cast swinging the other way.
Also the CD reduction on it right now is worrying because its normal CD of 45 seconds would line up with colossus smash so well, but the reduction doesn’t quite make it to 50% so you will be delaying one or the other to keep them lined up.
As many others have stated, Demolish being a 2 second root on a sub-30 second CD is a non-starter. There are far too many frontals and ground effects in the game for this to not be an extremely risky ability to use as a core rotational ability. Especially since this tree is accessible to protection. Tanking as Colossus will be an absolute nightmare.
Another thing that I haven’t seen mentioned at all is that increasing your size by 5% might look cool, but that would also mean that your hitbox is 5% bigger. So it’ll be even easier to get hit by swirlies, which you’ll already be nicely rooted in place for approximately 10% of the time!
I think it needs a redesign from scratch. Having played warrior for over 20 years , the chosen design doesn’t speak to protection or arms in any meaningful way.
First off every hero talent pinnacle or otherwise needs one unique animation. So I should expect to see one for this one.
Secondly , they need to go back to the drawing board theme wise or enact better implementation.
There should be no channeling of any kind for a pure melee spec. Remember the class fantasy. Arms is about big hits that are impactful. Bleeds fill in the gaps here, not extra attacks or a flurry of anything. A flurry would be more appropriate for fury.
Overlapping tree is going to be a mess. If you chose arms you get its own hero branch. By overlapping tree you diminish potential of class fantasy.
Now a mountain thane should be protection only. A blade master for arms only. For fury a slayer or whatever.
Keep mountain/colossus focused around protection. Remember fun is the goal and we don’t care about pure passives. Keep lighting based attacks incorporated into build and earth shattering stomps. A modified Thor like lighting strike in an area raising weapon would be the pinnacle.
Blade master( moving away from colossus) for arms needs an impale of sorts stabbing in and pulling out leaving a bleeding wound. New visual for this . A master of weapons so maybe you can swap weapon so visually shows your hammer when you stun someone and it goes back to chosen blade weapon for other attack. Modified hammer could be 8 yard but not a magical throw anymore. Pole arm sweep new animation replacing shockwave so it’s area stun similar to monk. Similar to d4 barb yes.
Slayer for fury would lean into enraging more and not bleeds. Can do a throw weapon than leap into target like hunter chain. Etc. Fast attacks . Hurricane , modified whirlwind would increase your movement speed and attack speed further. Etc.
I think you see the point that there is no point in doing hero talents if you aren’t modifying or visually adjusting to lean into a theme. It will just be lame otherwise.
