Feedback: Class Sets in The War Within Season 2

Yet you purposely ignore the part where you’re dismissive of people who know the awful knock on effect it’s going to have. “commented negative feedback without having a clue .”

Rest assured your playing with it on the PTR when 11.1.0 lands on there for testing will not have any extra information than what we’ve got right now from the initial notes on % rates and datamining for RPPM rates.

This isn’t a new game, it’s mostly solved as far as combat gameplay is concerned. The only aspects that are not solved generally are fairly early on through player testing of adjusted talent combinations with reworks of class/spec trees. Even then those are usually solved by at least one person day 1.

Blizzard literally asked for our feedback. That’s why we can reply to this thread: to provide feedback.

It takes exactly zero playtesting to understand that the FDK and Enhancement set bonuses are atrocious.

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For the monks thanks for adding more RNG to an already Rng class if you think this is good you should put a poll here and see how many people dislike these set bonuses.

5 Likes

these tier set bonuses feel very very bad. having your dps be rooted in even more RNG does not make a class feel good to play.

these tier set bonuses will be the least useful tier set bonuses in every scenario - having your tier set bonus be entirely reliant on RNG puts the player in a situation where they have no control over their damage.

also, what good is a tank tier set that provides more survivability at random?

like ok, i have a lot more survivability right now when im tanking one mob… but i actually needed the survivability two minutes ago when i was tanking 15 mobs.

negative. overwhelmingly negative.

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This is a funny one to put in there when that’s the default state of most specs already.

Anyway, actual feedback.

I think the shared keyword idea in itself is good, but it should be on trinkets. Make trinkets that are semi-class specific in that they have the keyword and the keyword somehow interacts with the specific kit, similar to the Echo of Neltharion trinkets. Set bonuses are not the place for it.

Set bonuses are where I expect to see something that changes my spec-specific gameplay. I want some change to my ability priority from season to season, and having that be relegated to reworks rather than the “seasonally changing” mechanic feels wrong.

It also feels restrictive to share the keywords/bonuses between so many specs, because they don’t work the same way, and putting more power into every caster’s CDs is a bit lame. Do different things for each spec.

Being heavily RNG reliant is also not particularly fun, but that’s the theme and would’ve likely been that way even if each spec actually got its own bonus.

Now the spec I actually play: the Shadow set seems okay. Nothing exciting, there’s practically no gameplay impact because the PI procs don’t change what buttons you want to press, but at least it’s some haste.

There’s a few concerns with the Shadow set. One is the behavior when refreshing. If I have manual PI active and the set procs, what happens? Does it fully add on top? That’s how it should work. Similarly, if I already have a set bonus PI active, what happens if I press manual PI? Does it fully add on top? It should.

And then there’s external PIs. It should not work with those. Don’t make Shadow some kind of external PI fiend. Clarify the wording to be “your own PI” like the Archon talent and make sure it works that way.

EDIT: This season was a good opportunity to make hero tree specific sets rather than spec specific. Basically the same number of sets, but actually tied into the expansion mechanic.

2 Likes

Havoc Tierset is not good.

The 2 set bonus has to be adjusted to more than 1%, a minimum of 2% and more likely 3% to provide any sort of value in tracking and stacking it. Otherwise it is literally a worse version of previous 2 set bonus passives from other seasons.

The 4 set bonus should make you gain 1% damage, not 1% crit. Why:

1. Crit already exists in the way PvE Havoc is built gear wise to a very high degree and does not require more of it compared to literal raw % damage

2. Crit is 100% useless for PvP Havoc and is the least used stat.

Another solution for the 4 set is giving you a flat 15 bonus seconds to Metamorphosis if you reached Winning streak and then used Meta

It could not be more obvious that you guys thought of these tier sets in 1 hour.

what a joke, each tier set is so similar Jesus Christ, please can you just try a bit harder, seriously you will be better off letting players come up with ideas. You are so out of touch with your player base it is not even funny anymore.

this is really pathetic

nearly all tanks and proc a defensive and then do more damage during the proc
nearly all dps have buff your spender by using builder and using a spender can remove the buff

4 Likes

I was excited for the update but now I’ll almost certainly skip it.

I’m begging the devs to strip the rng from their combat design, it’s LAME.

This game has went off the rails with the absurd amount of rng and skill interactions that amount to nothing.

Most of this design seems to only serve to make the game seem more complex for no actual reason. This doesn’t make the game better.

Why is it so hard to make a skill or an item that just does what it says. Stop piling on 100 if/then statements.

At least I have POE2.

5 Likes

My feed back is I’d rather you make the new t set the exact same bonuses with higher stats than this rng mess

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heck, that’d be more thematically fitting for death knight than these set bonuses q:

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Player Main Class: Death Knight
Spec: Blood
Content: I primarily play M+, stuck in roughly +10-12 range but trying to push up, and I raid casually. I do this across multiple characters, mostly other tank specs

I am having fun this expansion but feel the need to provide some critical feedback back on blood, tanking, and this tier set.

Preface this is in the context that it currently feels to myself (and to many others which I don’t think is unreasonable to say) that tanks and healers are too weak. The ways in which they are weak are not fun and the consequences for them being so have heavy impact on fun or lack there of for role players of either, reduced incentive for players to put time in them and thus reduced role pool, more work, more pressure, more tension, more risk, less player power, less fun, no difference in reward.

As blood especially I feel in a low power state and have trouble advancing compared to other tank specs such as prot pally and prot war and continue to be disproportionately affected by class nerfs targeted at my classes often with no buffs (zero blood buffs in 11.1) or often non-meaningful minor buffs to help blood when it is already on the lower end of power or representation. Whether by actual power or perceived meta power (the consequence for me is the same regardless of cause) I have trouble both advancing and getting groups despite sufficient rating compared to other specs with less.

This tier set presents very little to help with my specs issues and stability against dmg (sustained, sudden, or timed busters) or have more fun, do more damage, or get to do anything really special/ interesting. Some of this depends on the set proc rate and internal cd but it’s either up not enough and weak, too much which is still preferable and more “fun” to be invincible so to speak but not that interesting as opposed to too weak, or in the middle and inconsistent/unreliable which might as well be weak.

Encounters are often designed at higher difficulties where if my defensives are not 1:1 with boss or trash busters I will die, if this procs at the right time I maybe can save one and not run out (big problem for my spec!) but if it procs are the wrong time its not that meaningful, now I have to do work and keep an extremely close eye on when it does or doesn’t proc because not clipping my actual buttons with the proc will be a big deal! That’s stress and work for me not fun! More make sure I don’t mess up gameplay is not gonna feel that great and when it goes wrong it will feel awful, when a tank dies it affects encounters and dungeons disproportionately to dps or even healers. If a dps dies it’s often a minor inconvenience if I die more often than not it’s a wipe and possibly a deplete on the spot at higher keys. Way more pressure and execution expectation on the tank and while I LOVE the flavor of the casino stuff the tank is the one person in the group who can’t really afford to gamble. Also if procs are based on hits and this occurs more in aoe it certainly helps less in single target where tanks universally depend even more on defensives on the right mechanics and do even less damage generally than usual.

The death strike change in the 4 set is peculiar as it also doesn’t reduce it’s cost much at all. It doesn’t do actual anything in single target where I am already at my weakest damage and doesn’t change my gameplay in any interesting way when I am going to hit that button the same amount.

I appreciate your work on this and understand this is a crazy complicated game is hard to get right but the tank sets are poor especially in context with the very poor state of tanking m+. Thanks for hearing players out

1 Like

Nobody was asked to reserve judgment by Blizzard. Blizzard posted this to get responses regarding the tier set bonuses.

Personally, most of these look godawful. Some are more egregious than others (Frost DK, why on earth is Obliterate removing the Frost Strike amp?), but at the end of the day they all feel like generic 11.0.7 set bonuses… Except somehow, the mid-season content patch ring is STILL more involved in gameplay and power than the proposed tier set bonuses would be as-is.

The only real upside is the set bonuses look so generally low-power that they wouldn’t matter much early on, and I’d rather this than Blizzard buff the garbage to the point of necessity. None of these tier bonuses strike me as interesting. Proc buffs that remove themselves rotationally and strange 4pc bonuses that have minimal actual interaction with the gameplay of the specs.

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This is a missed opportunity to make hero spec tier sets rather than these bland, flaccid, uninspired sets.

It would’ve been great to have a Deathbringer tier set that adds a bit more deterministic dps to an otherwise gamba casino frost dk spec.

Instead, they decided to create possibly the worst tier set to date and add even more rng to the highest variance rng spec in the game

7 Likes

I’m curious if they are reading this feedback. They have to completely start over with these bonuses. There’s no tweaking this rng crap to make it good. You went too experimental/lazy. “Wow gambling themes they’ll love this and it only took us 10 mins to make all the t-sets.”

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they didn’t play early d4 i guess.

RNG tied to DPS or even tank survivability is NOT fun. These sets effing suck… Just sayin.

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Early D4 put me right off.
Sure the initial leveling was kinda fun, but once you were done with that short campaign and got into the endgame grind loop?
Shockingly bad design and convolution around the paragon board system. Let alone how the gear was whack early on too.

Still haven’t gone back to it yet even after hearing positives about how they fixed such an awful initial release.

Complexity and depth are fine in gameplay, but for passive systems of power? No.

2 Likes

Tell me you have no idea of what you’re talking about without telling me: →

  • Max HP is a useless stat when we are the tanks with less armor and HP in the game
  • It CANNOT increase Stagger amount cause Stagger cap is 1000% Max HP, and you will never reach that. Cause equals to MaxHP-DMG/Second
  • If you talking about Stagger effectiveness, is a talent that you almost don´t take, cause in the way that Stagger works its not a 15%, its barely a 5%
  • Effective CD of Fortifying Brew (6minCD) is about 3-4 Min considering the brews reduction which turns into 2-3 min if you taking a talent to decrase its CD 2 min. (To 4 min) which implies to sacrifice the xtra of 10% DR and 10% maxHP

In lots situations Fortifying Brew does nothing alone, and you are forced to combine it with other spells like Dampen Harm or Diffuse Magic (2 min CD and 1.5)

So yea, you clearly have no idea of what you’re talking about

1 Like

I’ll ask again since I’ve only seen this brought up a few times. Why are only melee dps being punished here? That’s not right or fair. Some semblance of balance would be nice here.

As a PvE player, this only seems to be… Just a little confusing. Shattering star is a 20% boost for an incredibly short amount of time, depending on the proc rate and without it interacting with our talents to grant essence burst, it will mostly be wasted. Why?
Flameshaper wants full-power Shattering Star for Engulf bursts.
Scalecommander wants full-power Shattering Star for Mass Disintegrates.
Even with it hitting multiple targets, Eternity’s Span already causes our normal Shattering Star to hit two targets for full power, meaning the 2pc only gains value in potentially 3-target scenarios but by that point it still depends on uptime, since the Shattering Stars after Dragonrage wouldn’t really be getting the big-damage value either since it’d likely be overwritten by our manual-cast shattering star.

The 4pc looks like it has potential though, even if a lot of our damage is still just Disintegrate, would add a bit of extra complexity to RNG in hoping that we can have two stacks for Fire Breath (which would be doubly-important for Flameshaper) but treating it as a passive, depending on proc rate it could make things strong throughout or gambling to be above mediocre.

Overall, for Raid and M+, I just think Shattering Star isn’t the thing we’d want to proc randomly at half-power, it looks more like it’d be a forgettable wrench thrown into the rotation where playing around the 2pc may require taking up Focusing Iris just to get uptime out of it or ignoring it exists and hoping it doesn’t cause trouble with the rest of our setup.