Speaking of Meta uptime, I hope devs go ahead and just provide a Meta that functions like a druid form and focus on providing interesting playstyle. Perhaps some ranged spells.
5 Likes
If anything it shows we donāt like pushing the button on CD, cause it lets us ignore TG almost completely lol. I personally donāt hate glaive throw, but itās strange to build a whole fantasy around it, and Iām not a huge fan of it being like top 3 of our dps.
2 Likes
Hello, I am a big Havoc nerd, just wanted to pass along my thoughts on the hero talents you guys have worked so hard on - thanks for that by the way.
Since we are not able to play with the talents yet and no concrete numbers this feedback will be focused on potential issues.
Soul-Fragment Management:
Tracking and managing soul-fragments for Havoc is a PITA to say the least. With the existence of Warbladeās Hunger if you want to be perfectly optimal you would need to Chaos Strike in between collecting souls, if there is any movement required during the encounter that quickly becomes almost impossible to do, if you have more than one soul-fragment spawned at a time it is very likely that any attempt to collect one will collect both. Of course this could be a non issue if the Warbladeās Hunger accumulates damage for each soul-fragment but with just an alpha tooltip thereās no guarantee that is the case.
We could also use some clarification about the specifics of Reaverās Glaive soul-fragment accumulation. Once we have three souls, which I assume would be reflected by a buff, does that buff then get turned into a separate Reaverās Glaive buff that would allow you to begin collecting more souls towards the next Reaverās Glaive? For instance on pull with Elysian Decree and Soul Sigils talents you would have 4 souls on the ground, and it would be pretty whack if one is just wasted.
Short duration buff windows may be in excess:
If we take our current raid build as a base (unlikely to be the best option but just to illustrate a potential issue) we will very quickly run into an issue where you have to overlap 5-6 short duration buffs and effects in a very short window, leading to very strict cast sequence requirements, which for lower skilled players would be very difficult to preform consistently. Players with the ability to do so may not enjoy doing it at all.
Potential Rotational Dominance:
Without playing with the talents its not exactly clear what the cadence of Reaverās Glaive availability will be, however with soul generation talents and refunds present in the hero tree I would expect it to be a rather significant increase compared to current game play. With current soul generation with a build focused on that, you would consume a soul fragment once every 4.4s on average bringing you to once every 13s for Reaverās Glaive. including the soul fragment refund from Aldrachi Tactics and you are down to under 9s with Wounded Quarry granting an unknown increase to our generation its not a far stretch that the average cadence for Reaverās Glaive is faster than the cooldown of Throw Glaive. Leading to the combos resulting from that having an extreme effect on your rotation. While this is of course the ceiling for how much of an impact it could have, care should still be taken to ensure that at the end of the day I still get to play Havoc with a side of Aldrachi or Fel-Scarred and not the other way around.
Evasive Action/Unhindered Assault Choice node:
For this I would like to see the throughput increasing aspects of this to be removed. We could have the second Vengeful retreat not provide any of the current combat benefits.
The Felblade reset could look more like this āAble to cast Felblade during Vengeful Retreat regardless of its current cooldown. If Felblade is on cooldown it does no damage and generates no fury.ā to ensure that this is not a throughput decision in any meaningful capacity.
Summary:
I think this tree is actually pretty decent, if not good. It offers a different take on our damage windows which could open the door to some pretty neat optimizations in AOE. While earlier I pointed out the short duration buffs competing for space in our rotation would be negative, Iām not sold yet that playing for every short buff will even be the ācorrectā way to play this tree. It has good bones and Iām optimistic that with some good polish this tree could be great. Exited to see what you guys have cooked up for Fel-Scarred.
DHs are supposed to have different characteristics depending on which Demon they use in their ritual, it would be great if we could have talents that let us choose between different demonic forms to represent this, or at least something similar to the classic hunter aspects.
Just being able to choose between the current DPS and Tank morph would allow for a more aggressive tank or a tougher dps, new transformations based on other demons would be excellent.
Felā¦archerā¦doā¦it
4 Likes
The DK rider tree could be nerfed to the point that it adds 0 dmg and it still would be cool.
Reaver has nothing ācoolā. Its just another short damage buff to keep track of that will be nerfed over and over and a reason to be forced to use throw glaive. There is no creativity here. No class flavor.
As a DH I use the power of my enemies to fight them and there is all this void stuff coming. I have my own illidari army. I HAVE A SPACESHIP. Where is the Illidari Commander hero talents? Or Void scarred? What is this uninspired boring nonsense when other classes have such cool stuff. We already get one tree less than everyone else because you refuse to make us a finished class. At least be creative with the 2 trees we get.
5 Likes
It has something to do with the fact that the DH lead dev is also the Rogue lead. They know almost nothing about the class, even with CONSTANT feedback they continue to shred the class of all its fun and push folks into playing Throw glaive/Momentum.
3 Likes
Being practical here, as VDH, I donāt see how I can play optimally AND use these abilities. Soul Cleave is enhanced, but only hits 5 targets. Throw Glaive hits 3. So if thereās 9 mobs in the pull, I should pretend I donāt have hero talents?
1 Like
thats extremely subjective and most of havocs playstyle was based on feedback recieved along with rogues. you not liking it doesnt mean they dont know the classes.
having every season since legion be demonic extension 2 button spam wasnt fun and very tiring. that being said, yes they could stand to cut one or two windows
2 Likes
I wonder if would work to add it through Hero talents? Or would it be better to do something at the base class talents? Iād love to see more consistent power ups coming from Meta, like it had back in WC3.
Either way, customization should go into the barbershop, just like Warlocks. Would love a Shivarra and Dreadlord Meta.
My feedback is nothing that hasnāt been said already. Delivered as a Havoc player:
- Another DPS window in a spec plagued with them already. Havoc is probably the most complex melee currently. It doesnāt need more complexity. We donāt need to sync more DPS windows. Havoc is fine as it is (borderline so)
- Souls as a trigger. Please, take 5 minutes to test this in a real boss environment and tell me how fun to play around souls as Havoc is. Itās a resource system over which we had 0 agenda for. We canāt control when they spawn and we canāt control how theyāre picked up. This can very easily cause problems related to our already elephant in the room, Momentum/Inertia, preventing us from micro-managing souls.
So yeah: TL;DR: While another burst window might be great from a profile/DPS perspective, in Havoc specifically feels horrible, we donāt need more complexity in Havoc and Souls shouldnāt be used for anything else as long as they donāt get reworked into a proper resource like Combo Points.
Please, come up with new ideas. This tree will be hated by most players.
4 Likes
As Vengeance, in M+, I rarely spec into Vengeful Retreat or Felblade, making the Aldrachi tree really bad for me. I use those in raid, but sacrifice both to get Imprison and Chaos Nova for M+.
1 Like
Vengeance here, the reality is looking at this treeā¦I wont really use it at all even if I was specced into it. Like it would be something that I would occasionally remember to use but itās not making into any kind of rotation or adding to the play style. 99% of my use will just be the damage reduction that procs from fel blade as a mini cooldown.
This really feels like something being geared towards the elite top 2-3% mythic raiders that are looking to truly max out their output in every scenario in that race to world first. For someone like me that just is looking to complete +20 M+ dungeons by the end of the season it just doesnāt matter at all.
1 Like
No more burst windows please 138 of them is enough to monitor as it is!
9 Likes
Feels bad. DH is all about eye bean blade dance etc etc lore wise ha e anyone seen a DH use throw glaive as their main attack? No is mostly eye bean and using their glaive in close combat. Why the focus on an ability thatās not the main focus of the spec.
2 Likes
glaives is dh only and every dh in lore uses some sort of glaive ability. saying glaives arnt ālore accurateā to dh is just as dumb as saying āeyebeam isnt iconic to dhā
Even with different cut since in WC3 you donāt see any throw glaive being even
Using glaives is slighty different from throwing them, Iād say.
I never really liked TG as a skill either, ngl. But I digress.
2 Likes
wow looks like ilidan is fighting arthas with a glaive. hmmmge
Yes he doesnāt throw it. Notice how he is holding on it and not throwing itā¦ā¦
6 Likes