FDK the debate needs to end

There’s debate on whether or not DW or 2H Should be buffed or nerfed, there’s debate on breath vs obliteration. Bottom line the way the spec functions, needs a rework. Functionally it’s either trash with not enough crit and you never get KM procs. Or it’s busted with enough crit and obliteration is doing too much damage so it gets nerfed. The proc auto attack crit function needs to go. It’s not consistent and as a result, with no pillar you do absolutely no damage outside cooldowns. This huge swinging pendulum is based off rng auto crits. The way I see it, obliteration should have a small cooldown and always crit, like a mix of mortal strike/chaos bolt then tuned accordingly. KM can reset the short CD but at least the damage will be consistent every time you hit the button. So what about other spenders? Just as unholy has a 2 rune and 1 rune spender plus a disease application, frost should get a 1 rune melee spender to offset the short CD. Maybe runic strike or something so it plays similar to arms. Pillar can be reworked to make obliterate deal frost damage but naturally only deals physical. What do you think? Do you like the way frost plays? Or do you want how the spec functions to change?

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I am having fun with the DW build, I am happy that it’s an option this expansion, while I didn’t mind the 2H Obliterate from last expansion, I like having the flexibility this time. My crit rate is not very high but is still doing okay damage. I am not looking to be FoTM, but still early in the gearing process on this guy so mileage may vary. I use Breath Build for Raids, and I use Obliteration for Dungeons and Delves currently. Both seem good to me.

Our burst window is definitely something that feels really good with Pillar, but outside of it it just feels “okay” but I guess thats the point of it.

So as far as how it feels, I am good with it for now, but my opinion may change later on.

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That’s a fair assessment, my main problem with the spec is the damage disparity with cooldowns and no cooldowns. I am ok with a burst spec! But even other burst specs have a design that allows them to “mini burst” such as warrior stacking overpower to buff ms. Frost doesn’t have that, there’s no planned burst you can do, you’re left with the hand of fate if your autos crit. I just want that aspect of FDK to change. I don’t mind either of DW or 2H but I do think blizzard should pick one and just stick to it to balance it properly finally. Especially looking at it from a PVP angle for my perspective so keep that in mind as well. But thank you for your feedback!

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Yeah that makes sense. The other classes I am playing right now are Mage and Warrior. For mage especially Arcane, having the burn phase, filler phase into a mini burn cycle is definitely fun to play with and while damage drops a bit outside of the burn phase, the flow feels more natural without huge drops on them.

Im having an absolute blast with Frost and I will as long as breath isnt a far and away meta build destroying the rest of the tree/spec ever again.

Considering we just got a rework, I don’t think we’ll get another one again anytime soon. I do think 2h and DW can be balanced. People have made good suggestions in the past but you know how stubborn Blizzard is. They’ll die standing on bad ideas like DND cleave.

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The argument should end. DW and 2h can be balanced to be within a few percent of each other. Blizzard just has to do it.

Getting rid of one or the other is as stupid as getting rid of UHDK or FDK because one is better than the other. Those specs will never be perfectly balanced against each other. Which is fine. Same for 2h vs DW.

Taking away player choice is never a good option. It is silly players have such a warped take on 2h/dw.

Might as well delete Frost mage from the game because they are far behind Fury warriors. OR, blizzard can do their job.

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This is why I quit dk 2 days ago.

The feast famine approach is not good.

I Sim at 980 dps

But I can only do that at start.

My dps rapidly does down over a fight to 500k to 700k over a fight.

And for mythicd it’s pathetic as cds are down every 2 pulls so in between I look terroble

I think they have already done it, people are just using the wrong 2h spec. Give hyperprexia a try

I switched to DW today. Loving it.
Got to bust out my hidden artifact skins from legion. The procs are great. First time i enjoyed frost since legion tbh

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the weapon should be cosmetic.
Problem solved.

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Pof has to much of a damage increase and it needs to go back to 20% with a 20 sec direction on a 1 min cd and icecap reduces the cd by 1 sec everytime something crits

Back in wrath there was a talent called death chill that made your next ability crit on a 2 min cd

I gave up on frost a long time ago. Boring spec.

Blood and UH ftw until they rework the entire spec.

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They currently are balanced within that range. Once people pull their heads out of the dirt and actually sim the right builds. Rider Obliteration is the strongest non-BoS build, and the gap between 2h and DW using that build is absolutely negligible.

Its around 3% at 600lvl and the delta grows to 5-6% with BIS gear.

This has been a problem for several expansions. They don’t fix it. I’ve lost hope.

They also claim to do “reworks” with virtually every patch but in reality they are little more than talent position shuffling. It nets us different effects but to date there have been no actual reworks - a rework would be introducing an alternative to breath or pillar for example.

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Which is exactly what it needs, the RNG nature of auto crits is just terrible imo. I hope they get the DF ret paladin treatment and not just “reworks” as you say with talent shuffles.

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Maybe I’m a little insufferable or perhaps still in the honeymoon period with frost DK but I’ve been enjoying it a lot. The most fun I’ve had on a DPS spec in a long time.

The RNG / random proccing I feel like is overtalked to a degree. Its random, but yet the fights still seem rather consistent over time? There are times where some dungeon pulls are a bit lack luster but then when you do get a decent pull the damage is huge and ends up evening itself out

All I can say is with the little group content ive done so far, the spec regardless of the things people dislike about it, is performing well.

Not against a rework of the spec, but really want to see blizz attempt that mid expansion and potentially break the good damage output it has currently.

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Blizzard has a pretty consistent track record of not really taking player feedback into account and continuing to do whatever they personally want instead of what the community is telling them does or does not work. If you think FDK and KM only proccing off auto crits is bad, wait until I tell you that Beast Mastery Hunter has a single non-capstone talent that provides upwards of 60% more damage in single target and almost nothing in AoE, and somehow the BMH developer doesn’t see that as a problem.

This is what im confused about - does blizz not assign designers to the classes who play and experience the class design at all? It seems like there are a fair few specs not that they are completely out of touch with and makes you wonder if the people designing them are even putting any effort into them?

Why is it you can have a community of players all agreeing on certain changes yet for some reason the class designer doesnt see it? It does make you wonder if they even play the game at times

I hate when im forced to play one playstyle… im amazed how dw got so many talent points to choose from, when 2h is basically motfw passive…

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