False reporting and automated ban

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
2210

Fesz is also stressing a scenario where that the reports, colluded or not, are actually valid.

At the heart of the problem, the main mode of abuse of this system will not be valid reporting.

IE. Johnny (arms) and his cronies simply don’t like Rob (hpal) because Rob rolled need on a piece of DPS plate. Johnny and his friends all report Rob for “cheating”. The automated system doles out a statute punishment that severely limit Robs ability to play at all until his ticket is researched enough by a human representative of Blizzard (GM) to vindicate Rob and restore his access back to normal standing. Meanwhile, Johnny and his cronies suffer none or limited consequences incommensurate to Robs automated punishment, because a GM, nor automation, can prove a negative. For all the GM can see, Johnny and his friends (if the GM can even establish these people as Johnny’s friends) could have very well legitimately thought that Rob was cheating in some way, and this has nothing to do with anything but. The only scenario where Johnny and his friends are ever likely punished is if they make this a frequent and obvious enough habit where lines can be drawn by not one but multiple GM’s.

If we’ve learned anything about social media and brigading, it’s that the platform is ALWAYS slow to right a wrong and has the poorest of all track records when it comes to punishing the people who fraudulently abuse their reporting technology. This is verifiable fact, and so far, Blizzard hasn’t broken that mold.

If you don’t see how this will objectively be a massive problem with the amount of online harrasment that already exists today, you’re either naive and haven’t had an online presence for very long, or behind the scenes you really condone this behavior. There’s no real in-between here, there’s just not.

3 Likes
2211

There is no “feeling it’s a violation” whatsoever in the hypothetical you chose to use. Gambling is against the rules. Communication and Community as we know them share roots. They go hand in hand. That is not collusion for the sole purpose of silencing anyone. That is community collusion to see an actual rule breaker punished and to show the community isn’t standing for it. Working as intended.

It looks as though you are trying in vain to negate what blizz said in the CoC about player flags helping to determine what is acceptable. Even so. In this case it does not even matter. The act is against the rules. There is no foul intent here.

2212

How so? How is Rob kept from playing?

2213

It would depend on whatever the statute punishment is. Let’s go with Tips idea that it only a squelch feature.

It’s no exaggeration that if Rob’s punishment was a squelch, his ability to engage in any group activity would be 100% limited save to accessing third parties (discord, etc.) in order to achieve anything that requires social interaction. You’ve played Vanilla yes? Then you also know, almost everything is a group endeavor that starts with direct communication to another player.

In the actual scenario that I presented, Johnny and his friends reported Rob for cheating. Rob’s automated punishment in reality isn’t going to be a squelch on his in-game functionality to say anything to anyone (or even see incoming communication). It will be a suspension from the game itself. Wouldn’t you say that seals the deal to keep Rob from playing?

This isn’t hypothetical when this is verifiable.

But you’re not even addressing the headache that Rob has to go through for something that was fraudulent in the first place. Which to say the least, is concerning.

2 Likes
2214

No. Let’s go with blizz’s idea that is in place right now. In the system as it currently is. How is Rob prevented from playing?

2215

Rob would be suspended until his ticket was appealed.

Would you like to keep trying?

2216

Ok. So you’re passing over the auto squelch now right to a GM sanctioned punishment? Well yea. Once you get to a an actual suspension you can’t play.
Edit:Would you like to keep trying?

2217

That’s how the whole automated system works. This whole thread, let alone the topic has never been a narrow vision of auto squelch but how it is full circle riddled with multiple layers of how anyone could harass another player.

But since you were coping a play to argue semantics, no one who played Vanilla is going to sit here and say that their in-game experience wouldn’t be detrimentally affected to the point of not even bothering to play especially without an already pre-established group of friends, if they had no means to communicate with other players in-game.

To re-iterate since comprehending and retaining what you read seems to be difficult. It doesn’t matter what the punishment is for any given scenario, it’s that the system is easily exploited by people with awful behavior. In so far, I’m not so sure that you wouldn’t be one of those people.

2 Likes
2218

First, again you are focusing solely on a single tree (advertising gambling) in an effort to support your desire for players to be able to impose punishment themselves.

Let’s look at another tree (use a different example):

“Spamming” is against the rules, but there is no definitive definition of what qualifies as 'spamming". That is completely subjective and up to an individuals “feelings”.

Johnny is selling service X for 15G. Billy is selling the same service X for 10G. Billy posts his advertisement in chat once every 4 minutes.

Johnny and his cronies collude to mass report Billy for “spamming” in order to squelch Billy and remove Johnny’s competition, although Johnny doesn’t submit a report himself.

“Spamming” may be a “valid reason” for reporting, but Johnny and his cronies used that “valid reason” to abuse the system.

As for there being “no collusion for the sole purpose of silencing anyone”, when did I say that the intent to silence another player was the SOLE intent? It does not have to the sole intent for the intent to silence another player to be present.

Why does the auto squelch need to continue to be tied to the reporting system?

If the intent is truly to “show that the community isn’t standing for it”, why not leave the punishment to Blizzard once the community that “isn’t standing for it” submits their reports? Or, is it truth in actuality the desire and intent to impose that punishment yourself?

Why not simply have the account, at least initially, “flagged” for immediate review one the target report number is reached and establish a system of escalating priority based on the increasing number of reports? It could even be set up so that the possibility of player imposed punishment was retained, but would require a significant number of reports to trigger the auto squelch.

Example (based on the target number of reports triggering an auto squelch being 10 reports):

10 reports triggers a “level 10” flag.
20 reports would bump that flag to level 9
30 reports would be level 8
40 reports, level 7
50 reports, level 6
60 reports, level 5
70 reports, level 4
80 reports, level 3
90 reports, level 2
100 reports would trigger a level 1 flag and an auto squelch

I’m not saying that the example I used of advertising gambling in chat is not against the rules, that it should not be reported or that Blizzard should not take action against those who advertise gambling.

What I am saying is that even though something may be against the rules, that does not negate the possibility of the system being abused by those reporting it.

Players can be just as capable of helping to determine what is “acceptable” if the system did not include a player imposed punishment. The reports would show what the players did not find acceptable even if those reports were not tied to a player imposed punishment that is so easy to abuse.

Again, though, if the player imposed punishment absolutely must be retained, it can be retained while making it more difficult to abuse by requiring a significant number of reports from different accounts to trigger that player imposed punishment.

1 Like
2219

Apparently you haven’t followed this entire discussion across multiple threads, don’t comprehend what has been said, or are wilfully ignorant to your own ends.

This started over “OmG so and so streamer made a video proving it can be abused”-No geniuses we knew it could be abused. Blizz admitted it could be abused when they said “don’t abuse this”. Pretty obvious for those with a 3rd grade comprehension level.
This was then linked showing it doesn’t even work like is being portrayed and exactly how little any of us even do know about it. Yet. Ya know. It’s gonna destroy classic. Lol. You guys gotta be kidding me. Don’t act a fool and you will be cool. Plus as you can see just add em to your friends list and it effects nothing! Bam. GG. You’re welcome.

Next it went onto how everyone will be walking on eggshells because people are abusing it and getting away with it. Which turned it into “say what we want with no repercussions”. Oh and don’t forget the alt brigading used to try and make this bigger than what it is too. I’d think if it was so abused you guys wouldn’t need such a tactic. There would be widespread support. Oh and CS filled with actual verifiable or at least investigation worthy claims. Instead Johhnynoobcakes heard from his guildie that Billyedgelord was abusing the system. Lol.

Yea. At this point you guys are making this player base look really sad.

2220

That’s a lot of words for an alternate version of history that didn’t actually happen in the way you spent the last 15+ minutes typing away furiously.

The nature of how glib you are over this subject is far beyond trying to play devil’s advocate and look for some rationality in between the opinions of either camp. Even more so when you can’t even coherently produce a valid point in defense of it. Similarly, it’s clear you don’t have the mental faculties to argue against it, for the sake of devil’s advocate either.

I can’t say I didn’t expect you to not address a single point and find some way in which you think you’re saving face to end on.

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2221

Did you give a moments thought to this before you typed it out?

In related news, crimes commited are most often not done innocently. After the break, video of a woman who stumbled upon a property of water being somewhat “wet”.

1 Like
2222

Full stop. Yes there is. The game literally will not allow you to spam. It prevents you from posting more than so many messages in a short time.
At this point anything reported for spam is advertising gold sales, gambling, or other RMT. It honestly should be changed to report for advertising or something because the game does not let you clog up channels with repeat messages in a short time.

So the hypothetical “unprovable” abuse situation. Again. We know nothing about how blizz determines this. Just because we assume we do. We don’t. All we can think is how would we proceed. Until blizz says this us how we conclude it’s abuse. It’s a pointless discussion unless you want to know what I would do. What I would so and what blizz does do to make this determination is most likely quite different.

Because blizz wants those who break the rules and are a thorn in the community’s side to be detained from doing so further until they can fact find. Blizz is also placing trust in the community to not abuse such the system.
Personally I think it’s abused more on the forums than in game.

I’m not getting into the semantics of the squelch being a punishment or not. That’s going to go around in a circle and I’m getting sleepy already. Lol

2 Likes
2223

Here’s the point, claiming that squelch abuse is going to run rampant and everyone will squelched for saying the smallest thing in chat is nothing more than fear mongering.

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2224

Well if you consider a link to blizz’s statement on what the squelch affects not addressing your “points” that are based on an inaccurate assumption then we are done here. You obviously don’t grasp how this works.

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2225

Let’s for a moment assume that’s true, without lack of your citation on any sweeping statements you’ve previously made here.

You’ve pinpointed only one avenue of this automated system.

But we have other social platforms we can look to, to determine what you’re saying is indeed a joke. Unless of course you’re willing to tell me that somehow WoW players are behaviorally different (and far more controlled/better natured) than players or users of any other online platform or game. If you want to run with that, I’m sure you also have some excellent bay side property to sell me in Nebraska.

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2226

Advertising? As in advertising a service that you are selling?

I guess that might be why I specifically mentioned that Billy was advertising the service he was selling.

If “the game literally will not allow you to spam”, there should be no reason for “spam” to even be an option for reporting, yet it is an option.

If, by “hypothetical”, you mean “already proven to have happened in retail”, then I guess you could call it “hypothetical”.

2227

feel is a violation of the rules to ensure that the player is squelched.

There is no “feel”

You are not allowed to advertise gamblng ingame.

Full stop. It isnt open to “feel”, its a fact.

1 Like
2228

Thank you. I should have added that. It’s what I was getting at. It is a fact. Not a feeling. Getting tired too.
G’night Classic debaters. I’m sure this mess will be here tomorrow. Lol
Their dancing is out of hand on this topic though.

2229

Mate

Do you remember “wrapped gift” scams?

it’s considered gambling.

…which means if you advertise it in any public channel, prepare to wear the consequences.

Note the date. 2014.

Read through this. Selling the items is not “illegal”, broadcasting it using game chat systems is against the game rules though.

And yet it is a practice Blizzard has been explicit in saying they don’t allow in public chat. Players can do what they want in private but when they take it public it becomes Blizzard’s business.

No, I’m afraid that would be advertising, Xylems. As the others mentioned our policies aren’t against casinos or other games of chance, raffles, etc… it is specifically against the advertising of them.

How many more do you need?

1 Like