Failed M+ design

Community General Discussion
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  1. Key Downgrade System:
  • In the current system, failing an M+ run results in the key level dropping, forcing players to repeatedly run lower-tier keys to regain their original level. For skilled players capable of higher tiers, this feels like unnecessary busywork and a waste of time.
  • This system is particularly punishing for team leaders, who bear the brunt of responsibility for failed runs, discouraging many players from taking up leadership roles.
  1. Inefficient Grouping Process:
  • High-tier M+ runs require a high level of coordination and skill, leading group leaders to be extremely selective. However, due to the lack of detailed information about applicants (such as their actual skill, experience, or communication ability), leaders often spend an excessive amount of time evaluating potential teammates.
  • Meanwhile, applicants face intense competition for spots in high-tier groups, leading to wasted time for both group leaders and players.
  1. Forced Social Interaction:
  • While encouraging social interaction is a core aspect of World of Warcraft, tying high-tier content to mandatory social dependencies can create undue pressure. Players who prefer not to engage with strangers or who dislike the social aspect are forced into it, leading to a suboptimal experience.
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Seems perfectly reasonable to let people build their own groups how they want

You can too with your own key.

As for depletes and leveling keys.

Quicker to get to 10 than 20

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I wish they would at least give us an alternative way to get the KSM mount. That’s all I care about from m+. You can keep the gear. :pensive:

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I’m currently trying to see if I can get it with my PvP geared monk tank lol.

No way in hell I’m going to manage multiple sets of gear. (I have alts as well.)

Just trying for the mount, no harm if it doesn’t work out.

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There to keep degenerate gameplay out of it

You can group with anyone and everyone you want to. Not sure how that’s inefficient

False. As long as people know what they’re supposed to do, nothing is required as far as social interactions (no, being in the same group as someone is not social interaction)

Where’s your other avatar?? Taking a mini-silence??

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You need gear to have the health pool to live through mechanics

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Just playing HC, and I only choose the avatars of characters I’m actively playing.

Also it tends to bug out and not let me change characters- I’m not even playing this particular character, he’s dead in HC as of yesterday lol. Just got unlucky. :skull_and_crossbones:

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They should hire you
 to bring them coffee.

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That wasn’t a problem for the 1st 20 years of the game’s existence, so why is it an issue now?

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Not that I think you have any actual credible experience, but proper problem solving requires coming up with actual implementable solutions to problems
not just stating a problem exists. Anyone can see and state a problem after all.

And once you start brainstorming solutions to your supposed problems, you should inevitably see problems and issues with your supposed solutions that are worse than the issues.

Like take your inefficient grouping process
pray tell in what unholy hell of a world do you think some kind of forced/automated grouping is going to solve over the current method of simply the leader vetting by whatever means their own teammates? You already admit dungeons takes a high degree of skill and coordination thus requiring time to find quality people
how the frick is a computer going to do it and do you think it’s going to build competent groups?

And your whine about people “forced” to be social conflicts with the need to coordinate at high skill levels. That’s just a requirement for participating in the content.

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Good post.

Let me add that M+ is supposed to be more easier to access for play than raiding. The fact that M+ has reached this point shows a major roadblock

:+1:

:surfing_man: :surfing_woman:

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Imagine calling “forced social interaction” in an MMO a failure of design.

Gotta be trolling.

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13

They clarified their position very well and I agree with this last point.

Not trolling IMVHO and legit good feedback.

:+1:

:surfing_man: :surfing_woman:

14

Good feedback to ignore. Organic player networking is the design goal of end-game in WoW, not a design flaw.

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I think a key should deplete after 2 or 3 failed runs of that key level.

This would give some protection to the owner of the key, but not let them run and fail the same key indefinitely.

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I wish they could be deleted. I have almost 100% of my bags full of stuff and I got my KSH and so now it just takes up space and my bank bags are all full and most of my other stuff is too.

Probably can. Monks aren’t that common, monk tanks are even less common, tanks are not as easy to find and have stick around as they were before so yea should be fine not to mention the fact that PvP gear for a tank is not as bad as some claim it is if you know what you are doing.

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How would blizz accurately convey these things in a manner one could reasonably review quickly in the LFG tool?

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August (a champion designer at Riot) made the interesting point on his stream that not everything is for every player.

If a player is giving feedback that ‘forced’ social interaction is a bad thing to add to a system where one of the design goals is for players to socially interact, then the feedback you should get from that is actually just “this system is designed for players with different preferences”.

Full clip here, it’s the last ~5 or so min of the video:

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It’s one of the things designers have to ask themselves when parsing player feedback.

Does this actually need to change? or is there to benefit at a different group of players who like different things?

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