You realise that gold farmers existed in vanilla and operated even more blatantly that they do now right?
Yes, but again…pay attention: the only gold that can be injected into the system is the gold that comes from farming. Gold farmers extracted that gold and recirculated it into the economy. They did not bring it from an external source.
In this situation, exploiters brought gold into the system from outside the system (from one layer to another). Layering didn’t exist during vanilla. Even in retail players can’t bring goods from one shard to another…players are explicitly restricted from trading in cross-realm groups.
Why do you think that is? Because the economy is supposed to be self-contained. Gold farmers operate within the economy; all they do is farm resources quickly and sell them to others on the same server–they don’t create “extra” resources like what happens when items are duped or layers get exploited to bring resources from one server community to another.
Layer exploiting and resetting instances is item duping, like Diablo item duping, not gold farming. You could be a gold farmer right now and all that would accomplish is you get X+ resources compared to the player next to you who doesn’t farm and only gets X. That’s not the same thing as generating resources through a mechanic the game never accounts for–like layer exploiting does.
Gold farmers (simple gold farming as distinct from gold farmers who are exploiting layers, which is the topic being discussed in this thread) are still only getting gold from within the economy, albeit the redistribution does become disrupted.
The difference that you two seem to be missing is that gold farming can disrupt an economy in that a Sword of the Bear goes for 100g instead of 10g. That’s a completely different problem than what happens when the AH has 50 Swords of the Bear because someone was able to skip across economies and bring those items back into their economy.
There is overlap in that those gold farmers in Classic were hopping layers, but it’s a false equivalency to argue that what gold farmers are doing now with layer exploiting is analogous to gold farming in Vanilla through BFA. That’s factually incorrect.
Sincerely Gratitude to Blizzard Classic Developer Team.
Hope the exploiter tracking and ban hammer review process isn’t too much work.
Get them all!
These people already have a new account and they’re already probably level 30. They’ll be 60 by the end of the week and be fully geared long before the suspension on their previous account expires.
if they did it legit, then don’t care.
Both disrupt the economy. Both create an uneven distribution of wealth on servers. Both have a negative effect on those who aren’t cheating because it creates an inflation of prices. That was my point.
Not once did I make any comparison between gold farming/selling from Vanilla through BfA or even mention retail at all, you made that connection. I said that gold farmers have been selling gold since week 1. The on Classic part of that was implied seeing as how we’re discussing layer exploiting in Classic and the subject of retail was never even brought up. Cheating in the form of buying massive amounts of gold in exchange for RL money was already a problem on Classic servers long before the first player got to 60 and the layer exploiting really took off.
But thanks for taking the time to explain to me how I’m “factually incorrect” due to your own incorrect assumptions, I guess…?
It’s not an assumption.
Yeah, sure I made that connection…
I directly addressed two people (even wrote that into my post to avoid this pointless debate you want to engage in, but whatever) in my response and the false equivalency you tried to create was between gold farming and layer exploiting.
I explained the salient differences in how those two player behaviors impact the economy on a macro scale. It doesn’t matter whether one is referring to gold farming in vanilla, anything from then to BFA, or Classic, the difference between the disruptions is how layering brings external resources into an internal economy. Gold farming doesn’t do that on its own without layering, but I already explained this. I didn’t say you were talking about retail. I didn’t make any assumptions. You are trying to pick nits with my post because you can’t contest the point of me slapping down your false-equivalency.
I drew a distinction between historical gold farming in the game from beginning to BFA and how gold farming impacts the economy now…because of layering. I never wrote you were talking about gold farming in anything other than Classic…merely pointing out that you aren’t half as clever as you think you are.
You need to re-read the thread because it consists of more posts than just yours.
Was I replying to every post in this thread, or was I replying directly to the second comment made with something related to his remark that I find to be amusing/ironic about the people who are behaving like layer exploiting is the end of the world and it’s destroyed the game? Think about that for a second.
You can type out all the pseudo-intellectual paragraphs you want, the point remains that you’re making connections and drawing conclusions that weren’t in my comment or the one that I was responding to. It doesn’t matter what anyone else in the thread said after that because those comments aren’t a part of that side conversation that we had.
Dareus said bans won’t cut down on the amount of people screaming about ruined economies and I responded by saying there are already gold farmers/sellers in game, so their crying is pointless anyway.
That was it. Nothing about retail, nothing about any of the other issues you keep trying to bring up. Just a “people are already buying and selling gold anyway”. Why the bloody hell are you trying so hard to argue and create an issue where there wasn’t one in the first place. It doesn’t make you look smart, it just makes you look like an obnoxious wannabe know-it-all.
When you don’t even permanent ban, you only encourage cheaters to try to cheat again in the future. Grats on being soft.
Go try the exploit and report back to us, big guy.
I think you are being deliberately obtuse, but here we are anyway…
People buying and selling gold inside of an economy doesn’t ruin it. It redistributes it and that can be disruptive to players, but it doesn’t impact an economy itself at the macro level.
Bringing resources into the economy that were never intended to be in the game, where the game now has no mechanism to remove, do effectively break the economy at the macro level.
I already explained this. It’s obvious how the two are different regardless of your personal attacks of my academic explanation to you of how economies function at the macro level. That’s the word you were searching for, academic or theoretical, there is nothin “pseudo” about my explanation even if you’re not capable or otherwise unwilling to understand the differences.
I also already explained that the developers are well-aware of this impact on the economy and that’s why players are not able to bring resources from one server economy into another.
Players have developed ways to get around this by transferring characters with items in their inventory and selling things on the AH to facilitate cross-faction trading, but this is the first time in the history of the game where servers’ economies have been effectively, unintentionally blended together.
Gold farming doesn’t do that and never has. Gold farming simply creates gold from within the economy and then redistributes it within that same economy. Layering explicitly transfers goods from one economy and brings them into another.
Your continual personal insults aside, your basic premise that “buying and selling gold” is already occurring in the game is undisputed. You haven’t said anything anyone reading this doesn’t already know. The part you can’t connect is that buying and selling gold doesn’t disrupt the economy at a macro level.
Grobbulus layer A is to Grobbulus layer B as Grobbulus is to Deviate Delight. Gold farmers on Grobbulus can not bring gold from Deviate Delight into Grobbulus’ economy.
The difference is that layer exploiters, which gold farmers can be but aren’t necessarily so, can bring gold from Grobbulus layer A into Grobbulus layer B, which is the same as recognizing the problems that would exist if gold farmers could bring gold from Deviate Delight into Grobbulus. They can’t; the melding of distinct economies like that simply is not possible without layering and that’s the problem with your false equivalency between gold farming and layer exploiting.
The problem is exacerbated by the fact that Blizzard can’t introduce gold sinks, which they have done to account for gold farming in past iterations of the game.
wow a whole 30 days
until its a streamer getting banned…color me unimpressed.
Mmmmmm I’ll believe it when there are a bajillion posts on the Support forums crying and raging about “false bans”. That’s how you can really tell that things hit the fan.
Let’s see if a few notable streamers will receive the same treatment after repeating exploits on stream.
Not a chance.
Blizz knows at this point the streamers are running the show.
Twitch is calling the shots as they control the masses.
Which is also why the games and company is tanking. There is no leadership in this company. Just a bunch of lackies listening to complainers and flavor of the month streamers.
It’s potentially worse than that. It’s actually a thirty day suspension pending an investigation. It may be a permanent ban after the investigation, we don’t know.
And people are cheating already, gross right?
The things people will do to “Win” in a video game, instead of just like, being good at them.