Examples of Layering exploits and problems

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
202

What a mess.

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203

Added to the OP, thanks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/c8ccfu/layering_cd_in_action_on_asmons_stream/

2 Likes
204

i have not gotten into the beta, and i know layering and phasing are different things or whatever, but i have been playing retail a bit, and absolutely hate whatever technical reason causes enemies, mobs, npcs, quest items, and pvp players to just appear/disappear around me. many times i will be heading to a quest marker on my map, only to pass it, and then see it spawn BEHIND me as i pass whatever invisible wall determines when it will appear. i play with my view distance at max. i should be able to see everything around me, not only when its a few meters away and the server decides its now relevant for me to see.

i dont know how its different on classic, but i DO KNOW it was not like this when i used to play wow in vanilla, tbc, etc. whatever mechanisms they are using to do this do kill immersion and ruin the ‘massive multiplayer’ part of MMOs. I want a more consistent world and i most definitely never ever want to see players, enemies, quest items, chests, etc just appearing around me, due to whatever technical reasons. its absolutely cancerous and one of the most annoying/detriminal aspects of playing retail for me right now. having whole groups of enemy players just appear around me as i enter some magical, invisible ‘quest phase’ or join a group with another player to have the enemy i am currently fighting to disappear and/or magically be surrounded by a full spawn. its absolutely bad game design, i dont care about server efficiency or optimization, i want immersion and consistency first and foremost and if they cant provide that now, 15 years after the game came out and was able to already provide it, something is wrong at blizzard.

5 Likes
205

In concept we do, but no one really knows how well it is going to function.

My take - if they can’t properly tune their sharding tech after 10 years, it is hard to imagine an untested system working as they intend come launch time.

206

I was looking forward so much to classic, not because of old gameplay and so on… even though it’s nice too. But mostly simply cause it was just the old world, with the same server model as it had back then in the older days of WoW.
It was so cool to play with the same people everyday, and see them while you were leveling. I even made IRL friends because i kept running into the same people over and over again, eventually we bonded even with our low WoW typical social skills lol.

And it was so immersive too…just go in, and be in another world with people who are home in it just like you. If they’re online, they are there somewhere out in the world, and if i want i can go see them and be sure they are there when i arrive.

But as i can tell that’s not gonna happen with layering…which just really sucks. I get why they want to do it, but it’s really a buzzkill. I just wanna play the old game again, and make friends while i level like i used to effortlessly back when we had no sharding/crz and so on. I wanna lose myself in the world, and know that what i see is what i get. Those i meet, i will meet again, anywhere out in the world.

I mean i even sometimes leveled new characters just to have another chance at meeting new people while leveling…and i would. It was so much fun, and exciting. I really don’t think any of that would have happened the same with layering…guess i’ll have to level new characters again after layering is gone to have that same enchanting wow experience again. I hope it all works out.
But if it came down to it, i’d much rather face all the issues that the old game brought than have this layering in…but yeah. What can you do.

207

This deserves to stay bumped.

208

Precisely. This is what Vanilla gameplay FIRST was all about. My concerns is, with Layering, Blizzard are putting gameplay last. While the problems that result from population spikes of launches are serious problems, they are not what is most important.

IMHO, the most important goal of this project should be (Vanilla) gameplay FIRST.

During most all prior launches over the course of WoW’s history, login queues and realm transfers, while far from perfect, actually contributed to making Vanilla WoW what it is today: one of the best MMOs ever.

We shouldn’t sacrifice core Vanilla gameplay (i.e., everyone sharing a single cohesive world/realm together) for instant logins and automated player population distribution management with Layering. Why would we do that? So, millions of “tourists,” as Blizzard calls them, won’t be inconvenienced and can instantly login only to quit the game in a few weeks, as they predict?

Yes, I understand how Layering could help result in fewer dead realms down the road. But we’ve solved this Vanilla problem with proven Vanilla solutions before with login queues and free realm transfers.

As a Vanilla player, I would much rather have all the drawbacks from the original Vanilla solutions from the original Vanilla game than everything we are seeing from Layering - because it puts Vanilla gameplay last.

The main goal of Clasic should be not to solve cloud-based server load balancing and player population management problems. The main goal should be: Vanilla gameplay FIRST, according to their own Mission Statement.

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209

Indeed it does. It’s a daily reminder of what Classic WoW will look like starting from the 27th August if this goes through.

I’m still really baffled how Blizzard doesn’t seem to see the issue here anymore, when they clearly did before. What is going on? What about #nochanges being their wake up call for when they get drunk on retail mentality kool aid?

Putting in a system like layering is going against their “love letter to the community” statement towards the core audience of Classic, and goes against their own company standards they set out for themselves especially for this project too. :love_letter::broken_heart:

All that’s asked for is Vanilla. No sprinkles. No layers of chocolate sauce. Blizz pls. Remember your own words! :icecream::+1: #NOCHANGES

210

This goes WELL beyond the scope of “bugs.”
This looks like pre-alpha footage. Not a damn beta.

211

Actually no. This is a very concise and detailed list of what all of us anti-layering guys have been saying since the beginning. I’m glad someone took the effort to put it all into a single post.

Vanilla WoW 1-60 on a fresh account, with a non twinked character is one of the best MMO experiences that ever happened. By the time layering is removed a large part of the community is going to be 60 and well into farming pre-raid BiS while the hardcores already have current content on farm.

The above issues will absolutely tarnish this experience. By the time this crap is removed people are going to be logging in to raid weekly, and honor grind AV. It’s sad really. :confused: This is the last chance at an “official” re-release of Vanilla and it’s looking strongly like they are going to botch it.

I think they are greatly underestimating the player retention numbers simply because Blizzard has had a lot of botched titles of late, and are just setting themselves up for failure.

3 Likes
212

I’ve said this more than a few times, but ALL of the issues with server merging can be easily handled with a very simple change.

Instead of layers you just release server clusters.
Example:
Dragonmaw-A
Dragonmaw-B
Dragonmaw-C
Dragonmaw-D

Now you simply have character names and guild names be unique across each server cluster.

How simple is that. Seriously. Merge them down as needed. If players do in fact leave in droves, now you have Dragonmaw-A/B and Dragonmaw-C/D… and if they keep leaving you just have Dragonmaw.

You get the real Vanilla experience with none of the drawbacks of sharding(call it layering if you want, but it’s still just sharding.)

3 Likes
213

It’s so odd to see them taking away Classics main selling point, the “World” of Warcraft experience, especially during a time where first impressions are paramount for both old and new players…

I mean, here they have a very unique game by their side, the masterpiece of the MMORPG genre, beloved by millions and a cultural phenomenon of its time.

And yet, rather than let it take it’s very unique place in the market, they instead implement the most disliked modern approach that lost them millions of players into this old game, taking away it’s unique MMORPG experience for the first weeks or months. ???

It could be a defining STRENGTH of Classic that it’d have none of these modern systems that have led to WoW losing it’s world and community…the 2 main pillars that made the game so amazing in the first place.

The game would be set apart from anything currently on the market, and reel in new and old players as it provides THE best mmorpg experience that’s ever been created, by Blizzard. Yes, that includes good and bad experiences.

I guess there’s still a bit of time left, but still. Why’d they shoot themselves in the foot like that? :confused:

2 Likes
214

Surprised this wasn’t in the OP.

Mid-combat layering. Fun stuff.

215

Was all ready to comment on this when the walls and floor started shaking again. This one 7.someting.

Anyway, that was 2 weeks ago Mogar. Let’s hope its addressed and dialed in by next stress test. . That is if the SoCal datacenter remains standing.

216

I’m hopeful that blizz is ignoring these posts because three months from release layering and all this talk about it will be but a memory. That’s basically what they’ve said and unless they’ve changed their stance there’s not much point in them trying to defend it

217

Layering is the cheapest and easiest path for Blizzard to take in the immediate future, which is all they care about.

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218

Three months and $45 is a bit optimistic for today’s gaming community patience/tolerance.

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219

This solution, even a layer-driven version of it where it uses a single server with locked layers that cannot interact with each other after character creation, is the only hope I have left for Classic. Actiblizz has been silent on layering for a while now so who knows if they’ll take this logical approach.

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220

I added it as well as a note of how Layering breaks questing - even without grouping with anyone, which I didn’t know was possible. Thanks @Mogar!

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221

This clip is also 2 weeks old.