Here. I will simplify.
In Classic you can queue up for a dungeon, anyone can choose anything. There are no restrictions. I want to tank on my shaman and queue up as a shaman tank? I can.
In retail, you can only choose what Blizzard allows you to choose. I want to shammy tank? I cannot.
Classic you have way more choices.
I genuinely don’t care if evokers were to get a tank spec…does it bother me or affect me in any way if they do? no…so if people wanted it, i dont see why it would be a problem.
personally, i think its a bad idea that dracthyr can only be evokers… dracthyr should be allowed for more classes.
Are we talking the LFG in Wrath classic? Maybe that’s the confusion as I generally associate classic with vanilla in these types of comparisons.
basically in Classic you can play a tank even if you are not specced as tank.
Like Furor/Arms Warrior, Blood/Unholy DK, Shaman enhancement.
But in Retail you are forced into specific roles because of the separation of specs
Oh yea. Sorry. I sometimes get the LFG and LFD confused.
that sounds like a compliment not an insult…
Give them 5 specs. 1 for each flight. 2 dps, 2 healer, 1 tank. Seems fair to me.
The dracthyr lore is completely made up and not canon yet. It’s not like giving them melee/tank is against some long pre established lore from Wc2 or something. They literally do not exist yet in lore.
They are only complaining because it’s dragons and not in the class they want to play
Change my mind is a satirical meme, its a reach to call that a demand when it could also be interpreted as a request and your engagement was not forced. I haven’t gotten the pitch fork yet lol. If you read anything past that though I have also requested other people’s opinions and reasonings as well as shared my own. Furthermore the onus is on me when it comes to submitting the request to blizzard - seeing as you and everyone else in the thread would not be making the requested change. It is not on me to convince you nor was that ever the construct of this thread. You like a certain someone else in this thread chose to see it like that and failed to engage in the actual topic being presented for a personal need to argue semantics. So I ask again Evoker tank, yes or no and why?
If you haven’t noticed I’ve been responding to any and all ideas with alternate perspectives and solutions. I do fully intend to take this as a direct request to blizzard with a strong and compelling argument of why evokers should get a tank spec and how I propose it is possible and beneficial. Even though this thread was intended to gather/rebuttal opinions regarding the specific tank spec for evokers there are many more broader and sub discussions regarding making it a realty. My true “onus” is to showing the why and the how of the entire scope when telling blizzard they should do this. Players will be for, against, and indifferent about the idea no matter what and for different reasons, they aren’t the ones that need to be convinced.
Agreed, yet his responses do carry insults and attempts to belittle/demean rather than talk about evokers getting a tank spec
I like this idea lol but my second argument after at least getting a tank spec was to have 4 specs that utilize a blend of the aspects (tank, mid range dps kind of like a survival hunter, pure long range dps, and heals)
There was a thread that was started that kept getting revived for a while that basically boiled down to: “Why must Evokers be tanks, why the hate towards casters and healers” because … at the end of the day, that is what this is about largely
Instead of saying “Evokers should get a third spec”, justify it from a gameplay perspective - why must Evokers have a third tanking spec? You say its from a lore perspective since that’s basically “Black dragons and dragons are big and beefy” … the issue with this logic when designing the game and the different gameplay aspects is that … if we go by the lore, a lot of things can be argued for that is exceedingly silly
Warlocks should be able to permanently delete other player’s characters, Paladins should be removed as a class and be the third specialization of priests rather than Shadow, only Pandarens should be able to be monks, and a myriad of other things, both major and minor (demon hunters and warlocks should be PvP enabled to be attacked by all players regardless of factions for an example, and wouldn’t be allowed into cities like Stormwind, Dalaran, and a few others)
Point is this: you can actually make an argument for all of these things from a lore perspective … it doesn’t make for a good gameplay experience so… you have to make the lore fit into what would make for a good gameplay experience
And they have, Evokers are battle mages, not tanks - that’s why drakonids serve as frontline warriors on the Dragon Isles and not evokers or even the dragons themselves, who instead serve the role of artillery and essentially bombers
So how does one justify Evokers being tanks from a gameplay perspective?
The answer … you can’t really
Defining characteristics:
At the end of the day though… we all just want to play cool functional classes
Having three specializations that play wildly differently to each others have never been successful, and there’s no greater example of this than the issues surrounding Discipline priests over the years
Let Evokers be casters and healers
And Demon Hunters function better as a class with only two specializations, as they don’t have to have ‘the third lost child’ as every single class that has an abundence of specializations face every single expansion, patch, and more
And this is even before getting into things like raid, dungeon, and PvP compositions and structure - this is just looking at all of the more nebulous points about classes and specializations, and there’s practical reasons as well that makes Evokers having a tanking specialization largely if not entirely moot
Along side lore/fantasy (which is a big part of class design) I’ve addressed this point directly with various gameplay potential/design(and even more factors to them tanking) - any of which can be implemented then altered and balanced as we go. Let me know if you have specific questions or rebuttals to how they make sense from a gameplay perspective and I will try my best to answer.
are you talking lore?
I have been
if their range is the reason they shouldn’t be tanks…every tank has 30 some yard range on some abilities so i don’t really see your point there. I’ve also listed several spell reworks (through talents or passives) that would let them be able to tank.
Even suggested a solution for this too…you don’t lose the caster. Plus idk what your basing your maths on cuz it no add up.
again lore/fantasy? this doesn’t tell me why evokers shouldn’t be tanks. Lets also not forget to mention there has been a net loss of 2 tank specs as well (dks had frost and uh tank specs)
Druid has been pretty successful IMO and they have 4. True not all at once, each has had their time though. Disc as well so i fail to see how this is an argument against evoker tanks.
Speculative because 3rd specs for DHs are completely possible and have already been hinted at by Blizz.
Please do get into why we shouldn’t have evoker tanks for raid, dungeons, and pvp because I have even touched on this in terms of M+ (raid and pvp will have their use as well)
The problem is that you’re approaching this with the attitude of changing evokers to make them tanks, when they should have been built from the ground up that way, and these issues would all have been resolved.
To quote myself:
I already covered this, but it was dismissed by Trapalicious, who didn’t even get the whole point of “If you are asking for Evokers to be tanks, you are missing the point that you are demanding them to lose their caster and healer identity”
Evokers are casters and healers, because that’s what they were designed to be, and they weren’t supposed to be tanks and any design elements of them being that were dropped early on if they ever even existed
Trapalicious had a bad take on things, and have made 73 posts in their own thread out of 333, and have upvoted their own posts by an alt 16 times
No, this isn’t a real issue, as it has never been one, and trolls are just being trolls
What? no they are still casters and healers lol
again lore/fantasy? which you keep dismissing btw lol
so its bad to respond to the ideas for or against evoker tanks?
Definitely seeing a pattern with those against - they don’t have reasonings that don’t have a valid counter response which they then try and turn into something else>fail>get angry> attack OP. Same as how some people mentioned that more players do not tank because of how people treat them, more people would post this very same idea if it wasn’t for those so adamant to attack them for their ideas yet have none of their own. Evoker tanks is something that can work and makes sense. I will defend that statement.
Please do share if you think it is a bad idea and cant work but be ready for an opposing response.
No - they are a spec that were specifically bred to be ranged - I repeat , specifically bred . They are not a naturally occuring species , they were manufactured by Deathwing with very specific talents and abilities to be casters.
Because we’ve had a tank every single time and we don’t need another one. It doesn’t matter if you consider this valid or not. This is how it’s been since the beginning and it’s okay casters are finally getting something fun.
I am going to intercept here, actual battle mages would engage in melee range, meaning they would be melee dps that has an arcane theme to them. They won’t be bouncing around the battlefeild like an evoker or ffxiv’s red mage.
Please use the battle mage jargon properly.
We’ve also had a dps every single time and there are still way more of those than any other role. Factually, BC added shamans to alliance for the first time - a non tank class. The casters will still have the same fun and not lose any if a tank spec is added- added being the key word there, not swapped.
Every class must have a dps spec if as a developer, you want them to be played.
No one wants to be tank or healer 100% of the time, espiacially with we seen them struggle with in the past in doing world content effeciently.