Returning to this, Chronicle 2-3 make it very clear that the Horde is a dictatorship, one whose executive has nearly limitless uncheck authority. The dictatorship can be benign, such as Thrall’s, but it is at its heart and institution that is unitary in power bent upon the subordinatation of the constituent peoples to the Warchief.
@Roghter the nature of war actually matters. A Cold War has atleast a nominal veneer of peace. Trade can and will occur, nor will both sides be devoting their resources specifically to defeat the other faction and territory does not really change hands. Yes, when Vanilla started it was a**Cold War**.
Right. Blizz models the warchief almost entirely after the Roman concept of a dictator right? Even down to how it was an emergency post that has become a norm.
You don’t mean in regards to Korm Blackscar, right? Pretty sure Garrosh was against it right off. Don’t recall any high fiving.
More accurate would be either the great Khanate in its original incarnation.
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Didn’t he?
double checks
Okay, seems I’m misremembering some foreshadowing back on page 5.
It was precisely my point. People can’t just leave, this is not like quitting your job and looking for another one.
Those races are not part of the Alliance or the Horde for luxury or confort, they are part of it cause their SURVIVAL depends on it.
And with Sylvanas being mad and seeing everyone who disagrees with her as a legit target for assassination like Saurfang, can you even imagine if a civilian tried to desert? What would happen to their families, their friends and loved ones?
It’s not as simple as “I quit because you’re moraly abhorent”. And I would advice against trying to argue with this nutjob elf fangirl, she refuses to see reason no matter how many times you try to explain, she only sees the world black and white, there’s no reasoning with people like this.
You guys went several rounds getting increasingly agitated with each other; sometimes it just takes a fresh voice to get things back on track.
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It’s kinda hard to reason with someone who literaly and unironically says EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THE HORDE is responsable for what Sylvanas did, like the orcish kid playing on Orgrimmar’s streets and the forsaken civilian who’s just selling potions are to blame for something Sylvanas decided to do on her own and that’s not me exagerating, that’s literaly what she said.
It’s like saying the kid who was born in Secound World War germany is to blame for the holocaust when he/she was literaly too young to understand what was going on, like, the kid is to blame because he/she happened to be born there? Come on man anyone with a brain can see this makes no logical sense.
It’s literaly blaming civilians who are just trying to live their lifes in peace for the actions of a bad leader when they had nothing to do with it and couldn’t do anything to stop it.
It is flat out bull. I’m good with people disagreeing with me, it happens all the time here, but when someone is so commited on being crazy, not a chance.
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They may be open to walking that back- at the least, they haven’t disputed my “absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence” post on the likelihood of a Horde response that just wasn’t shown because the writers felt it was tangential.
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Eh, besides kids, you could argue citizens have a degree of culpability for the actions of their leaders. Just that there’s no easy solution for it. How far moral culpability extends isn’t always cut and dry.
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I don’t think you can blame civilians for a leader’s actions. Specially when there’s no possible way for anyone to predict what said leader would do much less prevent him from doing so.
Guilt comes from either the person doing something reprehensable or by being able to prevent it but neglecting on doing so.
Merely existing on the bad leader’s city or country doesn’t make people responsable. Like I said, the poor guy selling potions on Orgrimmar couldn’t even know what Sylvanas would do much less stop her, why is he to blame?
Eeeehhh…
There is not a single society in the World of Warcraft where that is true.
There are no elected positions above the local level, that we have thus far seen.
You are not culpable for the actions of a hereditary monarch, theocrat, autocrat, or oligarch just because you are subject to their rule.
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Precisely my point.
People never elected Sylvanas, she was named by the previous warchief wich makes her blaming everyone for what Sylvanas did even more moronic.
Exactly, though I would argue that the elites (in the social science sense) within said society are absolutely culpable.
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It seems so. I means we said, over and over, this what we didn’t want. And there were so many other ways to go. And yet, here we are.
Right, but rather than calling her stupid, it proved far more productive to demonstrate via prior evidence that Blizzard is prone to leaving crucial details unpublished at the time of events.
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I’ll concede that you can make the argument, but I would not accept it in its own right as a premise. Rather, it would have to be examined case-by-case.
In the Tinderdrassil case, I’d argue that her choice was so left-field that you can’t reasonably attribute it to the prevailing culture as a whole.
Maybe someone should give her the same memo.
Because strawman arguments and taking everything I say out of context to make me look like I’m saying genocide is ok when I never said that is not a good way to argue and it’s not a good way to show me you are trying to have a civil discussion.
People tend to react poorly when people decide to strawman you instead of repplying like a normal person would, I have no need to respect someone like that. Respect is not something you give everyone, it’s something you earn and so far she is light years away of earning mine’s.
That is a fair point. And I accept the addendum. Though continued support of Sylvanas by the elites does have some problematic implications.
Edit: I don’t know if you intended but tinderdrassil is really good black humor.
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I think it comes down to how much risk one thinks is morally obligated for a citizen when it comes such things. Things like voting, protesting, moving, defecting, etc.
Tacit support or negligence comes into play, to a degree, for me.
Existing, no. But if they live there they probably take part in the economy. Probably support the people taking certain actions in indirect ways. Again, it really depends how far one thinks culpability extends, as well as what actions are morally obligated. Not saying your opinion is wrong, but also that these things aren’t cut and dry.
Well Gnomes vote for High Tinker? Anyway, I get your point. But I think it is the same as Razzats.