Let’s disable mythic gear outside of mythic raids then : )
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You don’t. You can do warfronts fresh out of questing. You don’t need anything special. You can quite literally run them while eating a sandwich and watching a movie. There’s nothing in that content that requires you to have gear from high end Mythic+ or Heroic/Mythic Raiding. Nothing.
Okay. sure. I have no problem with that… but why? What’s the point of doing that?
Totally pointless because this thread is a dumpster fire… but i want to make the case for why an RPG player might want to play an MMO game. Im gonna comment on my experience as an rpg/high fantasy solo player. Im also gonna point out why i, an rpg player (not an mmo player) picked up wow in 2005 and played it.
Step 1: Group content. Its really fun. This should be the end of it. I like group content. Through Vanilla to bc i have endless fun memories of running dungeons and pvp. Group content is FUN. Its dynamic, engaging and exciting. Obviously it became less exciting as the game went on and tropes cemented but the mainstay is that group content is fun. I can STILL remember my first deadmines run. It went from Loch modan world PVP (absolutely stunning at the time), into a group forming for deadmines. This is a 15 year old memory and its bright as day. I still remember jumping through the portal and having no idea what to expect on the other side. I’d never ran a dungeon. I had no idea about dungeons. I didnt even know they existed. But omg if i wasnt (for the second time in one day) completely blown away. World pvp (TOTALLY awesome) into deadmines (HEAD EXPLOSION). I was pretty much hooked on mmo’s (despite being a SP RPG player).
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I originally played on EU servers. Between 5-7pm server time (this was before warmasters when you actually had to queue at WSG), thered be a massive invasion of astranaar every day like clockwork. It was magnificent. Im an rpger. RPG games dont have this kind of chaos. It was spectacular. Of course if want more of this! OF COURSE I WOULD.
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The world. Hey! remember when we had pvp servers and not warmode? I remember my… i dont remember its class (sorry)… crossing through silverpine to southshore. I was experienced at the game by then so i knew i was going into a warzone. I deliberately said to myself “i wonder how long until im ganked” (the charm of the pvp server and the reason i rolled it).
I crossed the border with my heart in my mouth. Before the ‘contested zone’ alert disappeared off my screen a skull pally deleted me. I still remember it. I still love it (and i still think warmode is trash despite predominantly playing alliance).
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This dumb shammy.
I forget when, but thaurissan put out a call for alliance. It was BC because up until that point i was rogue main (EU was druid main). I responded. I was a world pvper. I wanted to help. The fight from 1-60 was ridiculous. I had no stealth. I couldnt avoid pvp. Any time she won, she’d be met with an obvious shout out from horde betas. For every quest completed, i probably had at least 3 normal kills and 20 group zergs. I was apparently a rare spawn silver dragon NPC. And im not gonna lie, i kinda enjoyed it. Especially considering that 10-40 BGs was the most fun i ever had in game. -
So lets skip through time. From TBC through now im genuinely struggling to remember why i play this game. Now and again its fun. But mostly it kind of isnt.
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But im still playing it. In hope i suppose, that the world game will be less… whatever it currently is…
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Lets be clear. Warmode is an issue. Im not just saying this from nostalgia. The amount of times a hordie could have sent me to the gy during pve questing is… well, its a lot. Than again, after 5-10 gankings the amount of time my alliance character would have pwnd you jerks is… 3/10? (i suck).
But i would have learned (because i literally would have had to if i wanted to complete this dumb turn in).
Which brings me to the punchline i honestly never realised (at the start of this post) i was going to make:
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All you jerks are NPCs. I hate you.
Sorry, reset… -
Warmode is stupid. Why on earth would i toggle a button that makes this game harder when im literally just trying to turn in a quest? Oh, i get 30% exp boost? I LITERALLY DONT CARE if im not the dominate faction.
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This wasnt remotely the point i wanted to make when i started this post. The point i wanted to make is that you wow NPCs are awesome. You make the game exciting, chaotic, and interesting. But it got side tracked by world pvp. So…
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Why does a single player, RPG player play an MMO?
Because OBVIOUSLY, you bring chaos and life to the gameplay universe. No matter what BLIZZ sets, you break it and make it fun. You might be born MMO players and give no concern to RPG. Thats cool, we love it.
Thats why we ended up playing wow instead of PoE. Also the lack of massive text spiels. (i own it). MMOs arent just social games. Theyre fluid, chaotic and changing games. They arent restricted to group play styles.
What a dumpster fire (that post i just made)!
Point is this: RPG player playing this game because you walking NPCs make the game more immersive, involving, and engaging. I dont need to interact with you. I dont need to group with you. But you’re human beings behind that screeen with your own bs, goals and objectives. I cant just ignore you like i can my Mass Effect/Dragon Age team. That’s why i play MMOs. Not because i want to be sociable, but because i kind of have to be (and its more engaging) if im dealing with you. Sociability and grouping isnt the DEFINING EXPERIENCE of this game. PvE is amazing in this game (genre leading!). But its not why i play an mmo. I play mmos because their chaotic, crazy, stupid, exciting, and really stupidly frustrating (now and again - people are… whats the word… self absorb… no?.. self intere… no? Nuts. Yep! Thats it! People are nuts. I love it.)
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Also killing players is always 1000 times more satisfying than a scripted npcs, not much satisfaction from beating a predictable group of code
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right! Its like we’ve lost the basics.
An mmo shouldnt just be restricted to pve content. An mmo player shouldnt be defined by their capability to organise and defeat pve content. The hook for me was the random spurts of chaos other people inject into the game. This happens in scripted pve, but it also happens just doing everyday nonsense in the game.
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It is the point I have made on this thread
The majority of mmorpg players don’t care about social stuff, solo ques are extremely successful and liked in all the mmorpgs they have been added because people just don’t want to bother with the whole social process of forced group content.
It’s why arenas are so dead and aren’t touched by the vast majority of the player base. Same happens in rated bgs.
Meanwhile games that have a solo que show a far bigger participation in most activities cuz there’s no talking or grouping up with other ppl, just quint and smashing players
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So far my “favorite” argument is where everyone against this says “you are all just lazy and don’t want to do work”
To you people I say you have missed a big part of the OP’s argument. The more casual and solo players don’t want things handed to us as you so wrongly believe. We don’t mind working for the gear. The problem we have is we want to do it by OURSELVES. On our time, at our pace. We don’t want to group with 4-24 other people to get the gear. Some of us just don’t have the time to energy needed to put up with the toxic douches that are super hard core players.
I don’t mind having to take 3 weeks soloing to get gear I could do in 1 run with 5 other people. I’m fine with that scenario. The problem is the game doesn’t allow me that option. THAT’S what we want. We aren’t saying “gimme stuff” We are saying “give me comparable access to it” And you are all skipping over that point.
You think just because you have the time and the ability to get multiple people together on a regular basis you are owed more and better gear. That’s the level of self entitlement you are applying to people who just want to do the content solo. You are not any better then the rest of us. We should have fair access to the same stuff threw different means.
If you want to pvp then go pvp. If you want to raid then go raid. I prefer more solo stuff so I should be allowed to solo. But all 3 of those paths SHOULD give equivalent gear. Now I’m not saying it should take the same amount of time between the paths. But solo players should not have to wait an entire expansion and Blizzard adding “catch up” methods before we get access to equivalent level gear. We played during the entire expansion, we should get access to gear at a decent pace, not as catch up.
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Because the ‘they want feee stuff’ is just an excuse to keep people down, it was never about effort because they know very well that nobody asked for free gear but they need to find an excuse to attack ppl like me
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No.
Go play a moba or shooter if you don’t want the best gear to be skill-locked.
There should be paths to the best possible gear, only for the hardest content. So mythic raiding, pvp and m+ maximum rewards should all be the same.
As someone who’s been playing swtor since the beta…no don’t. The current gearing system is awful, especially for pvpers who are forced to do pve to gear at a decent pace. You can get to ilvl 306 quickly, but the actually grind is after that getting the real gear which are the set pieces and the overly convoluted crafting system for the high end augments.
There’s also nothing to do in that game because the current pure rng gear system made raiding pointless. Just run hammer station over and over again. There’s zero reason to play any other mode.
Great story experience, but that game has zero end game at this point and it takes them 2 years to add any kind of “meaningful” content and that content is usually extremely short. The last “expansion” was 2 hours long and you could reach the new cap in 30 minutes.
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How is “skill locked” the same as “group content locked”? It takes an entire groups of “skilled” players to do. Why shouldn’t “one” skilled player have access to the same stuff as a “group” of skilled players? Both scenarios require “skill”, the difference is the number of skilled participants.
Your argument is invalid if all it takes is “skills”. It shouldn’t matter if it’s 1, 5, or 25 players then. Group content is only harder because of the number of participants. If it wasn’t then they would not have put in the ability of raids to scale based on the number of people in the group. The bigger the raid the harder it is. But in the over all grand scheme of things it still takes skill to beat the content. That content scales based on the number of participants. So why can’t it be scaled down to 1, 2 or 3 people? Why does it have to be 5+ people content only gets good gear?
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Aren’t you against PullTheRipcord? You said we were selfish because we wanted to swap freely between covenant abilities.
I guess it’s different to spite the people who care about min maxing eh?
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The current gearing system for Swtor is great, you get 306 and the set early on, that is where most of your power comes from, after that it is augments which are mostly a gold cost after you acquired your preferred piece alongside amplifiers which are an rng gold sink
Both of those are an upgrade but nothing enormous like in WoW where mythic from heroic gear leads to 3/4 of the health of mythic tryhards.
It is exactly how a gear grind should be, get your main source of power fast and easy and then slowly maximize small things like augments and amplifiers
That is how the gear system should be, no forced raids, no forced rated arenas, a currency that let you purchase max ilvl gear.
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No, the base unmoddable 306 gear you get is trash. The stats are all over the place and not optimal at all.
The actual grind is farming tech fragments to buy the set pieces (that also require 1 million credits as well and its an EMPTY SHELL) and then more spamming hammer station to get armorings/mods/enhancements in hopes of getting the BiS one (over 30 different types of mods and all of them are trash except the 80 non lettered mods. The 80-R, 80B etc… are all horribly stat optimized).
You get an inventory full of garbage that you break down for tech frags and then take those tech frags to an NPC and buy an armoring/mod/enhancement and those are also RNG!!
God forbid you only want to pvp because if you run with just the basic 306 gear…you’re a free kill. Oh and pvp gives the worst rewards out of all the content because F pvpers in every MMO game. Heaven forbid pvp in any mmo gives a decent path to gear. Nah lets force pvpers to spam pve dungeons to gear up.
No, swtor’s current gearing system is not good. Its raw rng grinding with a convoluted crafting system of costly augments. Augments used to not be epic tier items and were easy to craft, thus they were cheap. 80k-100k credits. Now the top end augments cost over 10 million credits.
The current system is not fun, especially if you wanna pvp. Warzones barely pop as is and ranked is completely dead with the same 10-12 people in the queue every night.
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That is the gear currency I was obviously referring to, which is a great way to get gear, especially since you get half of it by scrapping gear you don’t need, gear that you are showered with especially when you do a few queable master mode flash points, though I do admit people who spam hammer station definitely make it -retry boring which is why I que for all
The fact that you are showered with loot which also means showered with tech fragments is exactly why Swtor gearing system is superior to WoW
Throughout all that loot shower you keep the mods, armor ing and enhancements you need, my legacy bank is full of them because I kept them to use on my alts.
It took me around a week or a few more days after to get max set bonus gear with tech fragments, people have billions so millions are incredibly easy to get, the only true credit sink is refilling amplifiers which are the true final grind which should be long and slow, so you get most of your power early on aka set bonuses and then grind for perfect amplifiers and augments.
Also are you even playing the same game pvp wise? Not only he scaling in Swtor allows undergeared players to beat others when played well. There’s very little visible difference thanks to the superior scaling which makes pvp such a success, gear gives an advantage but not where near the broken obvious clear advantage that we see a WoW, more like a small % as it should be because skill>>>gear unlike WoW where pvp is a mythic pver mini game. And I am playing on satele Shan and we are getting ques within the first few minutes for random bgs, he’ll I am leveling a marauder and still get ques that pop within 5 minutes usually outside of rly late night na hours
The gearing system is perfect exactly because tech fragments are so easy to get and you can get your full set bonus with good mods and enhancements within the first week
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Everyone does have a path. Anyone can mythic raid. Anyone can do arenas. Anyone can do anything in the game. My $15/month doesn’t unlock more content for me than it does for you.
Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. Much like real life, you get out of it what you put into it.
If you are expecting a six figure income from working part time at McDonalds then you are nuts. If you are expecting to be given mythic raid equivalent gear for questing, pet battles or casually raiding LFR then you are nuts.
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https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/everyone-should-have-a-path-to-progress-to-max-ilvl-gear-everyone/672208/1766?u=cassatella-stormrage
this right here. if someone beats the literal hardest boss in the game, they deserve better gear than someone who just killed a rare mob in stormsong.
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Nah, it devalues gear at the top end. Just like any game, everyone has the chance to get the goods if they are good enough and have the time. If not, you’ll just be whatever you make yourself out to be. You don’t HAVE to purchase stuff to get the achieves, that’s a loser mentality. Earn it or don’t worry about it.